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Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

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Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#411

Post by abawany »

peteradio wrote: post #84
Nextgrid wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they tried a Windows laptop and liked it This requires Windows to become likeable. I (and plenty of other people) will like Windows once it: * has a consistent UI instead of 3 control panels with icons and UI paradigms ranging from Windows 95 to Windows 10. * ships with quality applications that don't try to eat the entire screen to display 2 lines of text (pretty much all "modern" built-in apps are a disaster in t…

Windows sucks but how bout Dell XPS with Ubuntu?

I have been very happy with my HP Elitebook x360. It has some user upgradability (ssd, battery), has been rock solid so far, has a great screen, Wacom stylus + touchscreen, and lightweight.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#412

Post by matchagaucho »

The warranty on my MacBook expired, but Apple replaced the keyboard under their "Quality" coverage program.

So, to some extent I felt they "admitted" the mistake. But when the new keyboard fails, and the repair costs fall on me, I'll be looking for an alternative.

For comparison, my 2012 MacBook Air keyboard still rocks.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#413

Post by dahauns »

corndoge wrote: post #325
toast0 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From about 7 years of troubleshooting mac problems, it's actually worse than Windows problems. First, you find people discussing the problem where everyone claims it doesn't exist and no solutions are found. Then you find the problem and solution for mac os from 2008, and that solution definitely doesn't work, but might also break things worse. Then you decide, it's best to just make sure your headphones aren't on wh…

It really is kind of amusing how forum threads with Mac owners asking for help usually have at least a few people that instead of responding to the question take the opportunity to relate how their Mac has been working perfectly for them and never had that problem. I like my Mac and my Windows and my Linux boxen, I'm not a Mac hater, but I only see this on Mac related forums.

And don't forget one of the most infuriating aspects of Apple community troubleshooting: The group of people questioning the premise of your problem and saying you shouldn't even want to do what you want to do.

Even worse than answers.microsoft.com. Ok, almost. (Let's not be too harsh here.)

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#414

Post by dwaite »

alehul wrote: post #108
coldtea wrote: post #78

15+ years as an Apple user, this is my biggest pet peeve. The other two being: - the touch strip, which I find mostly annoying. I'd prefer physical buttons with the ability to show different labels (a la Optimus keyboard). - whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea.

> whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea. For those not familiar with the Apple Mouse, the commenter means that the power plug is on the part that you’re supposed to have on the mousepad, meaning you can’t charge it while using it, at all. Easily the worst way to design a mouse, ever. I don’t understand how it was approved.

> Easily the worst way to design a mouse, ever. I don’t understand how it was approved.

I do. It was on purpose. They do not want people using the wireless mouse as a wired mouse with a short, thick cord not designed for it. Which is totally what my parents would do.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#415

Post by kkylin »

nrjames wrote: post #316
fumar wrote: post #277

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpad, touch strip, and the keyboard seems fine. In the past five years I have used the following; Thinkpad x230, Thinkpad X1 carbon, Thinkpad x370 yoga, Thinkpad X1 Yoga, Surface Pro 3,4,5, Surface Laptop, Surface Book 1,2, and a hackintosh Thinkpad X230. I was a…

I have a 2016 MBP and love the keyboard. I've never had any problems with it. That's not to dismiss people who have experienced quality issues. I don't mind the touch bar, but it's not particularly useful.

I like my 2018 MBP. I even like the keyboard. The touch bar is kinda "meh," but I think it's more a software issue than hardware: Apple's interface guidelines make no sense to me. Why can't developers use it to give me a little extra display real estate if that's what they AND I (the user!) want? Why must it be treated purely as an input device?

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#416

Post by reacharavindh »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #158
darrmit wrote: post #117

It’s not just the keyboard, either. I’ve been buying Macs since they switched to Intel in 2006 and the most recent MacBook Pros are the most problematic I’ve ever had. - Bluetooth seems to be fundamentally flawed at a hardware level. AirPods, Plantronics, doesn’t matter. It just randomly connects and disconnects as it pleases. - USB-C dongles are a minefield of poor functionality However, I’ve run Linux off and on si…

> but I just don’t have time to a.) tune and configure it to work and have decent battery life with whatever hardware I choose or b.) troubleshoot it when it randomly decides to break itself on update From my experience, troubleshooting macOS when it randomly decides to break is almost a Windows-like experience - lots of frustration and no sensible help on the internet (unless your problem is so trivial it gets solve…

Very much there with you. I run MacOS on my MBP for work. I built a workstation at home and run Ubuntu on it. I decided to upgrade to latest Ubuntu drooling over the GNOME perf improvements and I have a system that wont connect to any network and the settings app won't open and would like to send a crash dump to Canonical :-(

I can afford such problems on my personal desktop, google the issues and spend a part of day fixing some poor QA release bugs, but not on a machine that I use and rely on for $ paying work.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#417

Post by dwaite »

alehul wrote: post #233
salsadip wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually used the mouse? I haven't, but hearing from people that have actually used it (and not gotten all worked up about how bad this design is in theory) - they actually thought it was the BETTER design as the battery charged ridiculously fast. Meaning when they ran out they would charge it for a minute and got like a couple hours of use. This resulted in them actually using it as a wireless mouse instead…

I have used the mouse, yes— I understand what you're pitching, but I think that ultimately the user can decide whether they want it to be a wireless mouse or a wired mouse, depending on their needs. Putting it on the bottom did nothing but remove that optionality for the user, and that can be really frustrating. Unless the reason it charged so quickly was because it connected to the bottom of the mouse, I don't see t…

However the lightning charge cable is not necessarily the right thickness, flexibility, or length to be appropriate for use as a wired mouse.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#418

Post by AareyBaba »

cmiles74 wrote: post #324

A co-worked of mine convinced the company to buy them a MacBook (the first the company has ever purchased) to replace their aging Dell laptop. They have been doing more and more work on the company's iOS app and the aging Mac mini the company had purchased needed to replaced anyway. After having the laptop for just over a year, they called me upset as the laptop would no longer power on. After some gentle interrogati…

I have ruined several keyboards (3 Apple, 1 HP) by accidentally spilling water/coffee on them. What I don't understand is how do these devices get completely destroyed by small amounts of liquid.

I've disassembled these keyboards, cleaned and dried them out to no avail. Is something getting shorted out permanently ? Is some sensor getting ruined ? what exactly is happening and is there nothing that can be done to revive them.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#419

Post by Retra »

jimmy1 wrote: post #364
nrjames wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2016 MBP and love the keyboard. I've never had any problems with it. That's not to dismiss people who have experienced quality issues. I don't mind the touch bar, but it's not particularly useful.

I'm adding onto this -- I have a 2017 edition of the MBP for work, and I have a faulty keyboard. I hated it. "The touchbar is stupid", I proclaimed. I recently bought a 2018 edition for the wife because she has always expressed a desire of owning one of her own (my work always provided me with a mac). The keyboard is much improved. Additionally, watching a "normal" user interact with a Mac and a touchbar, versus me,…

I don't think people would be complaining nearly as much if they simply added the touchbar above the existing keys rather than replacing them. Or left the esc and power keys while putting the touchbar in between them. Lots of things they could have done.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#420

Post by toomuchtodo »

tzakrajs wrote: post #393
martinpw wrote: post #348

The Benjamin Button review of improvements in older Macs compared with newer ones: https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the...

Guess this guy was pleased with his slower processor too.

Probably still come out ahead with the additional time spent slower processing entails compared to Genius Bar visits and repair times. Ferrari vs Camry sort of thing.
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