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Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

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Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#371
My Masters program of about 30 people were all given 2018 MacBook Pros in August 2018. We've all been using it as our primary laptop since then and there has one keyboard problem that Apple did end up fixing.

I've also spilled maybe half a cup of water directly the keyboard of my 2017 MacBook Pro and it still works just fine to this day (I've since given the laptop to my dad).

Just hoping to add some more data to the conversation.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#372

It’s not just the keyboard, either. I’ve been buying Macs since they switched to Intel in 2006 and the most recent MacBook Pros are the most problematic I’ve ever had. - Bluetooth seems to be fundamentally flawed at a hardware level. AirPods, Plantronics, doesn’t matter. It just randomly connects and disconnects as it pleases. - USB-C dongles are a minefield of poor functionality However, I’ve run Linux off and on si…

> but I just don’t have time to a.) tune and configure it to work and have decent battery life with whatever hardware I choose or b.) troubleshoot it when it randomly decides to break itself on update From my experience, troubleshooting macOS when it randomly decides to break is almost a Windows-like experience - lots of frustration and no sensible help on the internet (unless your problem is so trivial it gets solve…

Oddly enough, with enough history knowledge and resources like Microsoft Windows Internals, I find troubleshooting Windows to be a dream compared to MacOS. If something acts funny on Windows, I have a plethora of free and open source tools to instrument internal systems and audit operating system performance. Meanwhile on MacOS, it seems like any program not provided with the operating system is closed source and costs $100 a year, and when something breaks, I don't even know where to start looking. My wifi is not playing nice with my home wireless router? No clue what the issue is, guess it's time for my twice-weekly reboot

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#373

I abandoned apple in Dec. of '17 after 5+ years in the ecosystem & went on a hefty soul search for what to use next. I knew the touchbar was sort of a warning flare that they were trending away from what I'd need out of computing. After frustrations with windows / linux (laptop, dell xps 13), I ended up shelling out a bunch of money to get a macbook pro '16 with just the two ports: No touchbar. Had to have the top re…

> Now on a '19 macbook air, because surely they've fixed it, yes?

Is there a 2019 MBA? I thought it was most recently updated in 2018. It certainly feels better than the older models, and even a smidge better than the 2018 MBP, which was updated earlier in the year. But there are still reports of issues with the 2018 MBA, including in the WSJ writeup IIRC.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it normal for companies to expect employees to pay for accidentally damaged equipment? At everywhere that I've worked, some accidental damage was treated as a cost of doing business, and IT would replace it.

In many companies that's the case. I hate it.

Let them sue. They'll lose if they can't prove negligence.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#376
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my workstation, no matter the OS, I’m going to revert what I did. If that doesn’t fix it, I’m going to format and restore with a backup. I have better things to do.

Or you can just use a proper linux distro that allows systemwide rollbacks like nixos.

I just realized, wait, windows has had that feature since at least 2000! Is that not standard on linux distros?

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in no way defending Apple’s keyboards and there are some real issues with tiny bits of dust completely ruining a keyboard, but normal laptops have always been susceptible to even a little liquid damage. But if your coworker couldn’t just go to his manager, tell them what happened and the company paid for it, that says more about the company.

A nice exception to that rule were (are?) the HP G series. Similar in class to latitude. A staple of corporate class laptops. Their keyboards are spill proof and have internal drainage channels for coffee not to puddle or get into the internals. I've seen it work a couple times, after a cleanup those Laptops were back at their (messy) user's desks.

HP (ProBook/Elitebook/Z Book), Lenovo (Thinkpad), Dell (Latitude and even a few Inspirons) - the classic trifecta of business devices has had spill-resistant keyboards since...dunno, basically forever.

And yes, it's my experience as well - they have prevented quite a lot of workplace drama. :)

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#378

A co-worked of mine convinced the company to buy them a MacBook (the first the company has ever purchased) to replace their aging Dell laptop. They have been doing more and more work on the company's iOS app and the aging Mac mini the company had purchased needed to replaced anyway. After having the laptop for just over a year, they called me upset as the laptop would no longer power on. After some gentle interrogati…

By Bay Area standards, you work for a super shitty company.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#379
The larger trackpad, the touchbar, and the crappy keyboard might all be easing us towards fully touchscreen computers.

The larger trackpad gives us more touchable real estate, getting us used to making gestures to control screen behavior.

The touchbar is similar- getting us used to changing collections of touchable buttons rather than the static keys available on a keyboard.

Maybe a crappy keyboard is part of that plan, providing a worse user experience to make the transition away from keyboards completely an easier pill to swallow.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#380

It’s not just the keyboard, either. I’ve been buying Macs since they switched to Intel in 2006 and the most recent MacBook Pros are the most problematic I’ve ever had. - Bluetooth seems to be fundamentally flawed at a hardware level. AirPods, Plantronics, doesn’t matter. It just randomly connects and disconnects as it pleases. - USB-C dongles are a minefield of poor functionality However, I’ve run Linux off and on si…

Also, the trackpads on Mac just work. I recently made a foray back into Windows a few years ago and was disappointed to learn that PC trackpads have made little progress in the intervening decade. Is it really easier to touchscreenify your entire software stack than to build a sane touchpad?

Meanwhile, if you're like me and don't like how the mouse or trackpad respond, you're SOL, because there is zero configuration allowed. Try using a non-magic mouse on a mac. It's hell.
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