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Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

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Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#181

Post by mrybczyn »

lostmyoldone wrote: post #97
coldtea wrote: post #78

15+ years as an Apple user, this is my biggest pet peeve. The other two being: - the touch strip, which I find mostly annoying. I'd prefer physical buttons with the ability to show different labels (a la Optimus keyboard). - whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea.

Dropping the magnetic power cord connector is a major issue for me, but otherwise I wholeheartedly agree.

Magplug charging is magical! Easily the best contribution to computer design from Apple, ever.

And then it gets dropped...

I wonder if the poor hardware has to do with increasingly outsourced R&D. I mean, everyone at Apple is rich, why should they bother with all the hard details ...

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#182

Post by wilsonnb3 »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #144
mruts wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Why are you using arrow keys for coding?

If you’re going to suggest vim bindings, fine, I get it; but the act of moving a cursor around to insert, remove, replace, or otherwise refactor parts of code is pretty essential to my workflow and I can’t imagine how someone wouldn’t need it. I use structural editing shortcuts quite a bit, but not 100% of the time.

I think you’d be surprised as to how many people just use the mouse for that.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#183

Post by School-Cotton »

robertAngst wrote: post #154
vbezhenar wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is good experience to be able to buy Apple device and be sure that everything there is pretty good. Choosing among thousands of alternatives is pretty frustrating. What brand should I choose? HP, Dell, Lenovo, IBM, Acer, Asus, whatever? I need good display, fast CPU, good battery life, enough RAM. Pretty vague requirements. You are buying Macbook and it's just good, you don't have any regrets, because its CPU is o…

>buy Apple device and be sure that everything there is pretty good. The alternative is that you spend 30 minutes of research and get a superior product cheaper. This isnt an opinion, this is reality. You can find a computer with better specs than Apple, cheaper. I'm not sympathetic to the 'mom' who doesn't know what RAM is, they get penalized by Apple for being an uninformed consumer. Is there any reason for a 'Nerd'…

“Specs” are a very minor piece of what most people, including nerds, care about in a laptop.

“Why would anyone ever buy a BMW, when you can get a Dodge Challenger with more horsepower for cheaper?”

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#184

Post by geophile »

muraiki wrote: post #160

I had slowly been moving into the Apple ecosystem, buying an iPad, iPhone, and even a HomePod and Apple Music. I was largely motivated by a respect for Apple's stance on privacy. Then it came time for me to buy a laptop and I encountered these numerous reports of Apple screwing up one of the most basic parts of the computer. I couldn't justify spending so much on a laptop plus AppleCare, which would only result in ge…

I am somewhat locked in to "the ecosystem", having an iPhone and an MBP. But the badly designed apps, the disaster that is iCloud, and the new MBP keyboard (the broken butterfly keys, the moronic touchbar) have motivated me to escape.

It's not entirely feasible, even with my minimal exposure. So I've compromised. My daily driver is a Darter by System76. The hardware is good enough, the battery life is good enough, the keyboard is fantastic, and Pop OS is beautiful. I still have my failing MBP, but it is demoted to a station for syncing my iPhone. I rarely touch it. When it dies I will replace it with a Mac Mini. I don't want to move to the Google ecosystem because of privacy issues.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#185

Post by hliyan »

jvatic wrote: post #176

My main complaint with their new keyboard design, not having used it enough to encounter any reliability issues, is that it’s just way too cramped to actually type on. I’ve since gone back to an older MBP, but while I was using the newer design I found the only way I could actually type on it was using an external keyboard. There really wasn’t anything wrong with the 2012/2015 form factor and I wish they’d go back to…

I too had to go back to an older MBP, but not because the keyboard was cramped. My complaints:

1. Not enough tactile feedback from keys. I have to carefully calibrate the amount of muscle power I use to hit the keys, which paradoxically increases the pain in the joints of my fingers.

2. Lack of a physical ESC key. I touch type, and this makes writing code rather difficult.

3. Lack of USB port. Lack of HDMI port. Lack of magnetic charging port (which is very convenient)

4. Oversized touchpad. Increases accidental touches.

My old MBP is now in its third year, and I'm really hoping a newer, more usable version will come out before it dies.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#186

Post by dsego »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #155
zaphar wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I send easily 8-10 hours per day looking at my screen. Screen quality has a large effect on how tied my eyes are at the end of the day. When I was younger it wasn't as noticeable but I'm not young anymore and my eyes are noticeable happier with the MacBook Pro screen that any other screen I've tried. For me it's an issue of eye health.

There are plenty of non-Apple hidpi laptops.

How is win or linux support for those these days?

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#187

Post by robertAngst »

vbezhenar wrote: post #168
robertAngst wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll list my problems, I don't expect this to go over well, but since you asked- >Apple's podcast app was glitchy/laggy. >Apple maps took me a 'long' way, but it didn't know traffic was bad. I give them a 50% pass. >Apple maps telling you to turn at the last second... >The home screen is not on the same level as Android, no widgets in 2019. >Controls, I felt like things werent intuitive, but thats an opinion thing. >…

Apple apps have nothing to do with iOS. You can use many apps. I'm using 4 different map apps and Apple maps is not among them. Check out google maps for example or try to find one that local people used (I had good experience with TomTom in Europe). iOS has widgets on other screens, home screen is just apps launcher. Controls are opinionated indeed and I feel myself better in iOS world without that strange "back" bu…

These are nice answers, but I just want my phone to work.

My OG pixel is a clear upgrade.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#188

Post by gnicholas »

ascii_only wrote: post #68
Rudi9719 wrote: post #58

I don't understand the failure of the butterfly keyboard? I haven't had any issues with my 2017 macBook and it seems to keep kruft from getting under my keys (A problem I had with the older macbook keyboards) I also live on my macbook so it's constantly in use, and much to my displeasure, around food.

Nearly half of the third-gen Apple butterfly keyboards at Basecamp have failed. There are few other personal reports with similar percentages. Second problem is that it will cost a lot of money to fix your keyboard out of warranty.

Yeah it will be expensive to fix out of warranty. Apple has extended the warranty to 4 years for the affected machines, but it seems like after that we’ll be screwed. The resale value of these things will suffer because it will cost $600 to get them fixed at that point.

They’ll be fine for use with external keyboards, but I wouldn’t recommend anyone buy a used one for use as a regular laptop.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#189

Post by robertAngst »

School-Cotton wrote: post #183
robertAngst wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>buy Apple device and be sure that everything there is pretty good. The alternative is that you spend 30 minutes of research and get a superior product cheaper. This isnt an opinion, this is reality. You can find a computer with better specs than Apple, cheaper. I'm not sympathetic to the 'mom' who doesn't know what RAM is, they get penalized by Apple for being an uninformed consumer. Is there any reason for a 'Nerd'…

“Specs” are a very minor piece of what most people, including nerds, care about in a laptop. “Why would anyone ever buy a BMW, when you can get a Dodge Challenger with more horsepower for cheaper?”

Marketing?

EDIT: Specs are everything. Not just HP. Specs are how many USB ports the vehicle has. The colors of buttons. The comfort.

Also, I wasnt sure if you thought a BMW was actually better. They are lower rated, but BMW has a huge marketing presence in the US.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#190

Post by salsadip »

alehul wrote: post #108
coldtea wrote: post #78

15+ years as an Apple user, this is my biggest pet peeve. The other two being: - the touch strip, which I find mostly annoying. I'd prefer physical buttons with the ability to show different labels (a la Optimus keyboard). - whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea.

> whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea. For those not familiar with the Apple Mouse, the commenter means that the power plug is on the part that you’re supposed to have on the mousepad, meaning you can’t charge it while using it, at all. Easily the worst way to design a mouse, ever. I don’t understand how it was approved.

Have you actually used the mouse? I haven't, but hearing from people that have actually used it (and not gotten all worked up about how bad this design is in theory) - they actually thought it was the BETTER design as the battery charged ridiculously fast. Meaning when they ran out they would charge it for a minute and got like a couple hours of use. This resulted in them actually using it as a wireless mouse instead of a wired one.

Same with the pencil 1st gen - it charged so fast that it having a male port actually made sense as it made on the go charging feasible.

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