Live data from Hacker News

Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

theoutline.com

51–60 of 644 posts

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#51
post #2

hmm... am I alone in being someone who likes the butterfly keyboard?

I think you’ll find a lot of people that like the way the keys feel and travel — like me — but are really tired of not having a reliable machine.

I’ve had to take multiple different machines in for repair. And each time I have to tell them to replace the entire keyboard, but they always want to blow it with an air can. Utterly infuriating.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do IT orders in a research institute, a MBP user wants a big memory machine to do server side data analysis, and wants to order the iMac pro 128 GB ram. He’s shocked to learn that for the same price he can get a Dell Epyc server with 512 GB ram. Guess what he still wants? The iMac, for the “ecosystem”.

I think that people underestimate the cost for most people to switch to another system. If you use any system for years, there are many ingrained habits that are hard to unlearn. Then there are probably applications that they use that have no direct replacements on Windows or Linux (e.g. OmniGraffle). Sure, there may be applications within the same class (diagramming), but even if they are as polished, it takes time…

>> I think that people underestimate the cost for most people to switch to another system.

I've been using all three major OS-es extensively for years, so for me switching wouldn't actually be that much of a problem. The simple fact of the matter is that I prefer macOS for almost anything, by far. No lock-in required.

Like someone above me already posted, I also fully agree Apple has seriously messed up with these keyboards, and in general appears to have a major problem with their design priorities (both in hardware and software). But that doesn't mean their platform isn't great (for me, even the best available) for many use-cases. If you forget about keyboard problems, high price, and for some (very narrow subset of) use cases insufficient specs.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#53
post #14

> “So, just curious, why did you buy another one?” she asked, referring to the 2018 MacBook Air I’d gotten six months after selling the Pro. I was hoping she talked more about this part, but brushing it aside by bringing up "Apple ecosystem" is pretty unsatisfactory. It does tell you, though, that Apple has its target demographic by the balls, and broken keyboards are certainly not chasing them away. Macbooks will ge…

TBF, I still find that I just prefer using MacOS to Windows. Windows has definitely improved, but my Mac just doesn't slow to a crawl while something updates or indexes in the background, which happens to me in Windows still. All the time.

I think that's a perfectly legitimate answer. It's just a shame that the available hardware to do so is currently terrible.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#54
post #30
post #16

P.T. Barnum (possibly) said it best: "There's a sucker born every minute." There are a lot of suckers out there with MacBooks.

After watching Louis Rossmann's live repairs and informed bitching, I bought an almost maxed-out Lenovo T480 on the President's Day sale and hackintoshed it. Water-resistant, backlit keyboard that's awesome and isn't crazy loud/fragile. 16 GiB, WQHD (could be brighter), Samsung 1 TiB 970 Pro and giant extended battery. 9 hour run-time. MIL-spec rated. EDIT: I had a pre-Retina A1278 mid-2012 MBP with 16 GiB and 2 SSD'…

Had a T480S for work. Nice port selection. Kinda thick. Speakers stink.

Powerful CPU. Upgradeable RAM/SSD.

Keyboard is nice, trackpad isn’t that great, screen isn’t as nice. Plus you’re stuck with Windows or Linux.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#55
post #39

X1 Carbon and XPS 13 are still the best hardware out there if you are using Linux.

My experience with the XPS 13 has been pretty meh. Most things work reasonably well, except for using USB-C for an external monitor and the keyboard isn't holding up as well as I'd like. My biggest gripe is the wireless- there's a room in my house where every other laptop gets plenty sufficient signal (mb air, chromebook, windows) BUT the xps gets such a weak signal it's almost impossible to browse the internet.

If I wasn't worried about bricking it and all the config tweaks needed to get things like sleep and power management to work, I'd throw linux on the air and call it a day.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#56
post #39

X1 Carbon and XPS 13 are still the best hardware out there if you are using Linux.

X1 Extreme is a better choice imo, up to 64G (replaceable), 2 m.2 slots, a GTX1050 for casual gaming or ML and a 4K display. I have one on order.

There is also the P1, which comes with a Xeon (!) option and Quadro P1000 graphics. The market for the P1 is pretty specific, but if you need those nVidia certified drivers, this is the one.

Edit: obviously you wouldn't run Linux on the P1 if you bought it for the certified drivers. It would still work though.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#57
post #2

hmm... am I alone in being someone who likes the butterfly keyboard?

No, I also like it. I’m not saying the complaints are unfounded, but they’re not my issues. I broke the command key after about a year of heavy use, but it took about five minutes at an Apple Store to have it replaced. I’ve broken keys on every laptop I’ve ever had, including the venerated IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads. (Don’t even get me started on how many problems I had with that horrendous trackpoint thing.)

Since then, my only complaint about the MBP is the arrow key arrangement, which I will never adapt to, and the goddamn useless, laggy yet hypersensitive touchbar.

When I have to use other people’s keyboards, I dislike their long travel now.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#58
I don't understand the failure of the butterfly keyboard? I haven't had any issues with my 2017 macBook and it seems to keep kruft from getting under my keys (A problem I had with the older macbook keyboards)

I also live on my macbook so it's constantly in use, and much to my displeasure, around food.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do IT orders in a research institute, a MBP user wants a big memory machine to do server side data analysis, and wants to order the iMac pro 128 GB ram. He’s shocked to learn that for the same price he can get a Dell Epyc server with 512 GB ram. Guess what he still wants? The iMac, for the “ecosystem”.

Should have told them to buy an old Apple Pro tower and max it out with new kit. This way you can actually make a machine more powerful than the ones that they currently sell.

Depends on what your definition of "powerful" is. If it has to do with CPU or RAM or SSD performance then no, you cannot max out the 2012 vintage Mac Pro with kit comparable to what the current iMac Pro ships with.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#60

I tried, but I don't really feel much sympathy for someone who buys a product with a 40% premium that's effectively a status symbol masquerading as a piece of hardware. To be honest, I'm quite giggly over this whole ordeal.

MacBooks aren't a status symbol anymore. You only tell yourself this to feel superior instead of considering that there are actual reasons people prefer macOS and, yes, the ecosystem over Windows or Android. Many of these reasons are cited in this thread.
Post reply on HN