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Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

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Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#31
post #14

> “So, just curious, why did you buy another one?” she asked, referring to the 2018 MacBook Air I’d gotten six months after selling the Pro. I was hoping she talked more about this part, but brushing it aside by bringing up "Apple ecosystem" is pretty unsatisfactory. It does tell you, though, that Apple has its target demographic by the balls, and broken keyboards are certainly not chasing them away. Macbooks will ge…

I do IT orders in a research institute, a MBP user wants a big memory machine to do server side data analysis, and wants to order the iMac pro 128 GB ram. He’s shocked to learn that for the same price he can get a Dell Epyc server with 512 GB ram. Guess what he still wants? The iMac, for the “ecosystem”.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#32
post #29
post #2

hmm... am I alone in being someone who likes the butterfly keyboard?

Been using them for several years now and I like them a lot too. I have the v2 MacBook where the 'b' key got stuck once but I managed to fix with some can of air spray. Have had various MBPs at work and most of been fine too. I've always had a habit ofregularly clean my keyboards too which I think may have helped reduce the amount of dirt getting stuck underneath.

> I've always had a habit ofregularly

“of regularly”

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#33
post #14

> “So, just curious, why did you buy another one?” she asked, referring to the 2018 MacBook Air I’d gotten six months after selling the Pro. I was hoping she talked more about this part, but brushing it aside by bringing up "Apple ecosystem" is pretty unsatisfactory. It does tell you, though, that Apple has its target demographic by the balls, and broken keyboards are certainly not chasing them away. Macbooks will ge…

I do IT orders in a research institute, a MBP user wants a big memory machine to do server side data analysis, and wants to order the iMac pro 128 GB ram. He’s shocked to learn that for the same price he can get a Dell Epyc server with 512 GB ram. Guess what he still wants? The iMac, for the “ecosystem”.

I think that people underestimate the cost for most people to switch to another system.

If you use any system for years, there are many ingrained habits that are hard to unlearn. Then there are probably applications that they use that have no direct replacements on Windows or Linux (e.g. OmniGraffle). Sure, there may be applications within the same class (diagramming), but even if they are as polished, it takes time to become as productive in a replacement.

Most people who are not tech enthusiasts just want things to stay as they know them. For a normal user, switching to another OS and applications is like switching from QWERTY to Dvorak - a long, tedious process, that will reduce productivity for one or two years.

Somewhat ironically, using a unix-variant is the easiest way to stick to what you know. Windows and to some extend macOS has gone through some design fads. Apple ditches/replaces fully functional programs, such as Quicktime 7, Aperture, and iWork (it took many years to get linked text boxes back). Whereas on a unix, you can still work like it is 1979 if you want to.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#35
post #26
post #14

> “So, just curious, why did you buy another one?” she asked, referring to the 2018 MacBook Air I’d gotten six months after selling the Pro. I was hoping she talked more about this part, but brushing it aside by bringing up "Apple ecosystem" is pretty unsatisfactory. It does tell you, though, that Apple has its target demographic by the balls, and broken keyboards are certainly not chasing them away. Macbooks will ge…

My laptop of choice (X1 Carbon) consistently gets a pretty good rep for its keyboard. I'm still using my ~6.5 year old first generation (top spec) and the keyboard remains flawless. But then again they actually test for foreign particle ingression: https://solutions.lenovo.com/resource-center/pc-solutions/pa...

Practically any laptop has a good keyboard compared to the first two generations of butterfly keyboards. I have suffered through a MacBook Pro with the second generation butterfly mechanism. Although I liked the feel of the pristine keyboard, pretty soon specks of dusts made keys get stuck/repeat regularly. I also had a can of compressed air to blow out the dust regularly.

Between the broken keyboard and only 2 USB-C port, I hated that laptop. I know have a MacBook Pro with a 3rd generation butterfly keyboard (which has the dust seals) and 4 USB-C ports. I am finally starting to like MacBooks again. So far the keyboard has been fine. Touch ID on a MacBook is absolutely brilliant, flying through 1Password and sudo prompts is awesome. The new True Tone screen is awesome. The largest downside: MacBooks have become even more expensive than they already were.

Why did I stay on a Mac? Three reasons: 1) I use a lot of Mac-specific apps (OmniGraffle, Deckset, Things) that I absolutely love. 2) macOS is still a great operating system. 3) The hardware is still simply better. The last point two points notice now that I work remotely and I Skype with my colleagues nearly daily. When I Skype with someone with a MacBook or iMac, the sound quality is great and without a lot of distortion. When I Skype with someone that uses a ThinkPad or another PC laptop, the sound quality is typically bad, their mics pick up a lot of noise, and somehow noise cancellation seems to work quite badly. Then there are OS-specific problems (which may also be Skype bugs), e.g. if someone shares their screen with me, I see the mouse pointer when they are on a Mac, but if they are on Linux there is no mouse pointer.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#36
post #21

i am absolutely laughing at this macbook pro 2017 i bought. the keyboard has been replaced 3 times now...the screen was replaced for stagelight effect(broken connector)...they replaced the whole top bit for that(everything north of the hinge gets replaced) i finally pawned it off on someone else and they promptly fried the motherboard due to water damage(the air intake ports lead directly to the motherboard so good l…

Woa. For the X1 Carbon, Lenovo actually designed ducts to channel accidental water ingress away from the important parts.

It's kind of sad that Apple gets away with just focusing on the glitzy externals - and that their plethora customers don't care.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#37
post #2

hmm... am I alone in being someone who likes the butterfly keyboard?

My company bought me a 2018 MacBook Pro about two weeks ago and so far I'm enjoying the keyboard; I like the tactile feel (I typically use mechanical keyboards whenever I'm at a desk, and so the tactile feel of the MacBook Pro's keyboard was a pleasant surprise), and there's more travel than I thought there would be. I remember trying the butterfly keyboards back in 2016 and hating them, so either something must have changed or my preferences have changed.

With that being said, I've only had this MacBook Pro for two weeks, and so we'll see if it remains reliable over the next few years.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#38

I tried, but I don't really feel much sympathy for someone who buys a product with a 40% premium that's effectively a status symbol masquerading as a piece of hardware. To be honest, I'm quite giggly over this whole ordeal.

I tried, but I don't really feel much sympathy for someone who buys a product with a 40% premium that's effectively a status symbol masquerading as a piece of hardware.

Oh come on, this is getting really old. A lot of people (most Mac users that I know) pay the 40% premium because they want macOS and the Mac application ecosystem. Sure, there are people that will buy it as a status symbol, but that's a crude over-generalization.

Also, a Surface with about the same specs sells at about the same price at our local retailer. The Surface Laptop 2 with a Core i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD is 1449 Euro, the MacBook Air 1409. There are some differences like a touch screen (Surface), Touch ID (MacBook), higher PPI (MacBook). But for all practical purposes, they are in the same class and have the same price. A similarly spec'ed Dell XPS goes for 1399 Euro without a HiDPI screen.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#40

I tried, but I don't really feel much sympathy for someone who buys a product with a 40% premium that's effectively a status symbol masquerading as a piece of hardware. To be honest, I'm quite giggly over this whole ordeal.

I tried, but I don't really feel much sympathy for someone who buys a product with a 40% premium that's effectively a status symbol masquerading as a piece of hardware. Oh come on, this is getting really old. A lot of people (most Mac users that I know) pay the 40% premium because they want macOS and the Mac application ecosystem. Sure, there are people that will buy it as a status symbol, but that's a crude over-gen…

I drive a 7-year old subcompact and you're telling me that the Mercedes S-Class is not that expensive because it's only $10k more than the BMW 7-Series.

Those are two quite modestly-spec'd laptops with fairly high price tags. I bought a rebranded Clevo with pre-installed Ubuntu 4 years ago with an i7 and 16GB of RAM for around $1,000. Does it have cool features like an all-aluminium construction or a nifty touch-bar? No, but it's a highly functional machine and has been quite reliable as a daily workstation (I once dropped it from a second-floor balcony and didn't have to visit a "Genius" since I'm actually allowed to open it and work on it myself).

Not so great at impressing peers, perhaps; however, I can eat all the sandwiches I want over my keyboard and it still works.

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