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Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

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Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#101

Post by rhizome »

icebraining wrote: post #45
AlexandrB wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why people were so unwilling to accept Zuckerberg's own sentiment ("dumb fucks") about their data for years. It seems like that's basically the attitude at Facebook from the top down. Everything else is PR spin.

I am not, and have never been, a user of Facebook. But I have to say, that statement means nothing. Mocking people for their poor choices may be in poor taste, or unfair, but it does not mean one is willing to take advantage of them. It's all he has done since that reveals that he is actually willing.

Mocking people for their poor choices may be in poor taste, or unfair, but it does not mean one is willing to take advantage of them.

He was mocking the users who had already made the poor choice of letting him take advantage of them.

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#102

Post by rhizome »

dymk wrote: post #27
AlexandrB wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why people were so unwilling to accept Zuckerberg's own sentiment ("dumb fucks") about their data for years. It seems like that's basically the attitude at Facebook from the top down. Everything else is PR spin.

“Dumb fucks” is more overplayed than “Google is going to shut down ”. It’s FUD. Zuckerberg said that when his tiny website was open to his classmates and a few others, and hasn’t been representative of how the company functions. I seriously cant believe that it’s still a meme people use to justify their hate for Facebook.

It started as "dumb fucks" and has merely been reworded over the years into longer and longer policy documents and press releases.

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#103

Post by chillacy »

netsharc wrote: post #91
chillacy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Facebook killing democracy meme is flattering for technologists but imo too simplistic. In America there are a number of “democracy killers” or “this is why we have trump” in the mainstream narrative: Russia, Racism, FBI, Facebook, electoral college, etc. Let’s not forget people tilt towards economic or cultural nationalism for a reason, and it’s in our power to address those reasons directly, not chase band aid…

A quip I read says: "Of course it's totally Putin's fault that Trump won, because actually everyone in the USA loves neoliberalism deep at heart!". But Facebook became an effective tool for a "voter hacking", if you believe the coverage about Cambridge Analytica: data-mine the Facebook profiles to determine the targets (apparently as little as several thousand people in the swing states), and then use FB's targeted a…

Maybe, but unlike hacking voting machines (which remove voters) this scheme relies on rallying real people to go and vote. It would have been achievable with traditional campaigning methods, just more expensively.

But why aren't we addressing the underlying issue of why these several thousand people in swing states thought to vote in this way? How come the mainstream response is to say "gee I wish those people hadn't voted"?

I think addressing the underlying concerns would be more effective. I get that politics can be zero-sum at times but campaigning in swing states and targeting issues that those voters find important should be part of every campaign.

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#104

Post by mancerayder »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #38
b_tterc_p wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re quote doesn’t really prove that it was just giving access to amazon devices. Could go either way, no?

Every other time the issue has come up, it's turned out that "access to user data" meant that the third party was allowed to ask the user for access to their data. In principle this could be the first time Facebook actually just tossed database dumps at Amazon, and in principle Amazon might have abused the access to steal user data for themselves. But neither of those possibilities seem likely or are supported by the…

Every other time the issue has come up, it's turned out that "access to user data" meant that the third party was allowed to ask the user for access to their data.

Allowed to ask the user? Can you unwrap that for us?

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#105

Post by chillacy »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #71

There is a world of difference between literally selling user data to whoever for money, and providing API access so that users of other platforms can chose to share their own data with that platform. The journalists lately are doing us all a huge disservice by conflating the two. I haven't seen any evidence at all that FB was selling user data. I've posted here a couple times on this issue, having been personally in…

Law of headlines: if it bleeds it leads...

To get crisp, selling data is selling the keys to the kingdom, it would remove FB's need to exist. There are strong economic motivations to not go out of business.

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#106

Post by rhizome »

threeseed wrote: post #18
neves wrote: post #17

Please read this. This isn't just another routine news that Zuck lied and Facebook is evil. They had access to more than 4.000 previously unreleased documents. Democracy is at stake. Facebook and its subsidiaries are destroying our societies. The problem is global. Not because it is happening in a far away country you shouldn't care. You can already see the increase in Amazon deforestation due to Bolsonaro election i…

You can't blame Facebook for the rise of right wing leaders. It's been happening in US, Italy, Israel, Poland, Hungary, Phillipines and now Brazil and the trend will continue whilst those leaders offer strength, populism and can point to immigrants as the cause of society's problems.

Consider the example of Julius Streicher:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#107

Post by averageperson »

rhizome wrote: post #100
averageperson wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, legally they are not the same thing.

That depends on the jurisdiction, doesn't it?

Is there a jurisdiction that treats ownership and permission to do something as the same thing?

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#108

Post by averageperson »

3xblah wrote: post #85

"The facts are clear: we've never sold people's data." - Paul Grewal, VP and Assoc. Gen. Counsel, Facebook Yeah, but that is not what is being alleged. What is being alleged is that you sell access to people's data. This constant recitation of "We do not sell users' data" is like being in late stage litigation where each party's lawyers have chosen their respective arguments. They will cling to them no matter what ha…

Users own the copyright to the stuff they share with Facebook ("users' data"). Facebook acknowledges this explicitly in its Terms.

Does FB have sufficient rights to "sell" copies of users' data? Unless the owners of the data give FB permission, FB cannot sell something FB does not own.

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#109

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

mancerayder wrote: post #104
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every other time the issue has come up, it's turned out that "access to user data" meant that the third party was allowed to ask the user for access to their data. In principle this could be the first time Facebook actually just tossed database dumps at Amazon, and in principle Amazon might have abused the access to steal user data for themselves. But neither of those possibilities seem likely or are supported by the…

Every other time the issue has come up, it's turned out that "access to user data" meant that the third party was allowed to ask the user for access to their data. Allowed to ask the user? Can you unwrap that for us?

To use most user-data-serving Facebook APIs, you need both authorization from the user whose data you’re reading and approval from Facebook itself for your app. Facebook has been accused of bad behavior when approving and denying apps, but they haven’t (as far has been reported) released any APIs to get user data without first asking the user.

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#110

Post by rhizome »

averageperson wrote: post #107
rhizome wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on the jurisdiction, doesn't it?

Is there a jurisdiction that treats ownership and permission to do something as the same thing?

You mean in the "possession is 9/10ths of the law" sense?
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