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Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

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Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#91

Post by netsharc »

chillacy wrote: post #56
dannykwells wrote: post #6

Zuck literally is becoming a charicature. What a joke. Except that world democracy is at stake. Can we regulate these goons yet or what?

The Facebook killing democracy meme is flattering for technologists but imo too simplistic. In America there are a number of “democracy killers” or “this is why we have trump” in the mainstream narrative: Russia, Racism, FBI, Facebook, electoral college, etc. Let’s not forget people tilt towards economic or cultural nationalism for a reason, and it’s in our power to address those reasons directly, not chase band aid…

A quip I read says: "Of course it's totally Putin's fault that Trump won, because actually everyone in the USA loves neoliberalism deep at heart!".

But Facebook became an effective tool for a "voter hacking", if you believe the coverage about Cambridge Analytica: data-mine the Facebook profiles to determine the targets (apparently as little as several thousand people in the swing states), and then use FB's targeted advertising to influence these people with videos you know will get them emotionally. Boom. Hacking elections/voting machines is illegal, but no one ever said anything about hacking the voters, right?

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#92

Post by okmokmz »

netsharc wrote: post #88
okmokmz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been perfectly representative of how the company functions. Collecting and monetizing data from the "dumb fucks" with little to no regard for anything other than profits and getting people addicted to their apps edit1: Guess I made some facebook engineers upset as I'm being downvoted. Looks like dymk is likely a facebook engineer, as his comment history has lots of comments seemingly supporting facebook, data…

> Collecting and monetizing data from the "dumb fucks" with little to no regard. I doubt humans are that simplistic, but at the end of the day, it seems they all have a price, and for that price they can invent lies so they can sleep at night thinking they're decent people. And until this headline I thought they (and Zuck in particular) still had a code of honor when they say they won't abuse the trust their users ha…

Why until this headline? Stories like this about Facebook and Zuck have been coming out for years

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#93

Post by okmokmz »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #75
dwb wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something doesn't have to be surprising for people to legitimately protest against it. The existence of Facebook isn't a result of some democratic consensus, it's some dude's get-rich scheme that's happened to have popped off.

The consensus was set by electing politicians who don't work for the common good. Facebook is nothing new. Our privacy has been systematically degraded by the data broker industry which has existed since before ARPANET. Congress protects that industry and Facebook reaps those benefits.

So what exactly is the point you are trying to make? Are you saying that none of us should care about privacy or the actions of Facebook because we've failed to elect appropriate politicians or failed to get the general public to understand what Facebook is doing?

The only way to get people to start thinking about these problems and implementing change is by publicizing stories like this. Seems like a very defeatist and unproductive attitude to just say "this is how it is" and leave it at that as your comments seem to imply

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#94

Post by averageperson »

smallgovt wrote: post #90
3xblah wrote: post #85

"The facts are clear: we've never sold people's data." - Paul Grewal, VP and Assoc. Gen. Counsel, Facebook Yeah, but that is not what is being alleged. What is being alleged is that you sell access to people's data. This constant recitation of "We do not sell users' data" is like being in late stage litigation where each party's lawyers have chosen their respective arguments. They will cling to them no matter what ha…

I agree Facebook is playing word games, but I think that misses the larger point. That is, Facebook is not selling access to people's data as understood by the lay person. The average person interprets "Facebook sells access to your data" as meaning that someone can pay Facebook to access your individual data. e.g. What sites did 3xblah, specifically, visit last week? This isn't how Facebook's ecosystem works. Advert…

(You are addressing the advertiser ecosystem while the focus here is the app ecosystem.)

The "word games" may not be aimed at the "average person". They might be intended to mislead those who have a concern with what Facebook might be doing. For example, it might be part of their job. The FTC is an obvious example, but there are many individuals and groups who are interested in Facebook's activities relating to privacy.

Incidentally, how do you know these things about the "average person"? Is there a citation to some studies you have read?

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#95

Post by jbob2000 »

3xblah wrote: post #85

"The facts are clear: we've never sold people's data." - Paul Grewal, VP and Assoc. Gen. Counsel, Facebook Yeah, but that is not what is being alleged. What is being alleged is that you sell access to people's data. This constant recitation of "We do not sell users' data" is like being in late stage litigation where each party's lawyers have chosen their respective arguments. They will cling to them no matter what ha…

Accessing data and selling data are the same thing. For example; “I’m going to give you access to the answer for a math equation”. When you use your access to view the answer, you have the data and you don’t need access any more! “Ok great, 1+1 equals 2, you can take your calculator back now and I’ll call you up if I need access to it again”.

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#96

Post by averageperson »

jbob2000 wrote: post #95
3xblah wrote: post #85

"The facts are clear: we've never sold people's data." - Paul Grewal, VP and Assoc. Gen. Counsel, Facebook Yeah, but that is not what is being alleged. What is being alleged is that you sell access to people's data. This constant recitation of "We do not sell users' data" is like being in late stage litigation where each party's lawyers have chosen their respective arguments. They will cling to them no matter what ha…

Accessing data and selling data are the same thing. For example; “I’m going to give you access to the answer for a math equation”. When you use your access to view the answer, you have the data and you don’t need access any more! “Ok great, 1+1 equals 2, you can take your calculator back now and I’ll call you up if I need access to it again”.

However, legally they are not the same thing.

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#98

Post by kerng »

dymk wrote: post #27
AlexandrB wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why people were so unwilling to accept Zuckerberg's own sentiment ("dumb fucks") about their data for years. It seems like that's basically the attitude at Facebook from the top down. Everything else is PR spin.

“Dumb fucks” is more overplayed than “Google is going to shut down ”. It’s FUD. Zuckerberg said that when his tiny website was open to his classmates and a few others, and hasn’t been representative of how the company functions. I seriously cant believe that it’s still a meme people use to justify their hate for Facebook.

I don't think its overplayed, rather re-emphasized over the years using business terms instead though.

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#99

Post by rhizome »

ForHackernews wrote: post #81
hackinthebochs wrote: post #30

>Facebook gave Amazon extended access to user data because it was... partnering with the social network on the launch of its Fire smartphone. So is this yet another case of the media being incapable of distinguishing between transferring of data to third parties and displaying data on devices as an agent of the user, i.e. for the purpose of providing an integrated facebook experience? Until the media shows itself to…

Is there any reason to think the companies given access didn't slurp up the Facebook data for themselves? Have any of them denied it or tried to qualify what they did with their access to the Facebook API? Back in the day, I was part of a team that built an app that used Facebook Connect/what they were then calling the "Graph API" for login, and our app certainly saved all the data that Facebook made available back i…

I doubt they'd ever qualify or admit that, since caching pretty much any user data has always or nearly-always been against the API TOS.

Re: Facebook documents show plans to sell access to user data discussed for years

#100

Post by rhizome »

averageperson wrote: post #96
jbob2000 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accessing data and selling data are the same thing. For example; “I’m going to give you access to the answer for a math equation”. When you use your access to view the answer, you have the data and you don’t need access any more! “Ok great, 1+1 equals 2, you can take your calculator back now and I’ll call you up if I need access to it again”.

However, legally they are not the same thing.

That depends on the jurisdiction, doesn't it?
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