Earlier quoted context omitted.
People would not want to build banking software for a specific company; however, if banks were to describe their problems in a sufficiently well defined way, people would cheerfully build various 'bank frameworks' for free. Some college student would happily have it on their resume. This of course would have to have banks be more open about how they operate, so it probably won't happen. This is to say, it's not reall…
Might be starting to happen more than you think. AMQP (messaging) came out of JPMC and other financial institutions Financial institutions are also involved in blockchain projects Another random example: https://developer.capitalone.com/open-source/
Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job
301–310 of 505 posts
Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not unionized since unions cannot seem to stick to protecting my rights and always expands into supporting socialism and meddling with foreign policy. That said my views on unions have become less negative: as someone pointed out - at least around here the construction companies with highest percentage of unionized workers are generally the most profitable ones year after year. Why? I can only guess but I guess peopl…
"Not unionized since unions cannot seem to stick to protecting my rights and always expands into supporting socialism and meddling with foreign policy." Seriously? You honestly think your employer, who you support with your daily toil, does not contribute to any political causes you might find objectionable?
It's factored in when I accept my job.
I've worked for next to nothing to support causes I find worthy so I am allowed to hold opinions on this.
But with my money, I choose.
Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm from Portugal (where we've had somewhat similar experiences to Spain with the mentality for unions). When I was young I believed they were good as it was what I was taught and fell in the socialist-leaning mentality of much of the country. Having started to learn about economics, entering the industry, and seeing the arguments many people make for unionization have definitely led to me to swing much harder to the…
Unions are just reverse corporations. They cannot be any more good or evil than a corporation.
Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can confirm this having accidentally ended up working in the Media industry (in a non-passion capacity). More pertinently, I know someone trying to get an entry level role in a similar passion field and is struggling. Adding to the problem is: - Passion fields are quite insular and like to only hire from within the industry - Nepotism is everywhere. In something like art, hiring so and so's son/daughter may cost you…
Nepotism is so pervasive and so horrible that I believe it should be outlawed. My SO is trying to get into the Media industry and I am myself incredibly frustrated for her sake by the amount of nepotism she experiences, when you've got assistants who are rude to everyone and lazy outright at a company but can't be fired because one of the producers knows their mother it's pretty freaking annoying.
Do you propose shutting down every small family-run business in the country?
Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
That just means they have to pay you for some time after they fired you. You can still be fired in an instant and be escorted out the door, especially if you have/had access to critical systems
Actually, at least in the UK, you can't be fired without cause. Normally you'll have to be told that you're underperforming, be put on a "performance improvement plan", and have to be given time to improve yourself, or demonstrate that you are performing well. You can be made redundant for no reason, but you have to be warned the moment management are considering redundancies that your job is at risk, and you are abl…
This is de facto the case in the United States as well. Employers will put employees on a PIP before letting them go to prevent them from claiming that they were wrongfully terminated (due to discrimination, retaliation, etc.).
Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job
#306> For many kids who grew up with controllers in their hands, being a game developer is a dream job, so when it comes to talent, supply is higher than demand This is basically the reason for low wages in quite a few 'passion' driven industries. If a job is something enough people want to do, then talent is cheap and plentiful and companies can provide low wages and poor conditions that for every person who quits, ten…
> the only practical solution is for people to stop taking on terrible jobs because of some sense of 'passion' So the “practical” solution is to change human nature? That doesn’t sound right. It’d be like saying that the practical solution to human trafficking is for people to stop visiting prostitutes; or that the solution to gangs’ drug income is for people to stop buying drugs. In all these cases, you can quash su…
Also they can follow their passion because many see their career as a sidelight until they marry and become mothers.. Men don't have this backstop or alternate way to follow their "passion", for men, low income = no marriage.
Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
And the type of software people make for free is not the same software people get paid to create. I bet few people would be eager to develop banking software on their free time for instance.
People would not want to build banking software for a specific company; however, if banks were to describe their problems in a sufficiently well defined way, people would cheerfully build various 'bank frameworks' for free. Some college student would happily have it on their resume. This of course would have to have banks be more open about how they operate, so it probably won't happen. This is to say, it's not reall…
As someone for whom the day job involves working on projects for investment banks and other regulated industries, I'd say this is not the first problem that needs to be solved.
> if banks were to describe their problems in a sufficiently well defined way
THIS is often the problem. They often don't know exactly what they want. Well, many people in the company think know what is needed/wanted but most of them don't agree with each other (and if they do they probably don't agree on priorities) beyond the rules set by the regulators (which are usually deliberately "non prescriptive", which is to say "vague"). They often have long lists of what they don't want, but no proper specification of what they do want.
The larger organisations are often so siloed that the left hand doesn't know which foot the right hand is pointing a gun at and no one really knows which elbow they are collectivly sat on. When a project to clean things up starts it is usually populated by people seconded from elsewhere who either still have that job to do so can't commit themselves to the matter in the concentrated way required to deal with it properly, or are not close enough to the problem to have a full understanding of the nitty-gritty details and the interactions between those details. And sometimes those details are very difficult to find until they bite you due to the amount of legacy systems these groups have dotted around, especially in cases where organisations have formed from many mergers & acquisitions over the years.
They don't want to openly share this state because it would be a public embarrassment. Of course, it is hardly a well-kept secret: they all know what state each other are in, as do those of us slowly trying to fix it and the consultants (internal and external to the organisations) making piles out of part-way fixing it (often by reinventing the problem space in new and expensively interesting ways!). But still they don't want it to be any more an open secret than can be avoided.
I assume large organisations in other industries are similarly afflicted. It is human nature (we often don't individually know exactly what we want) magnified by scale.
"It can't be that hard, can it?" you would be forgiven for asking.
"Oh, but it can", I assure you!
As others have pointed out elsewhere in the thread: things are improving, particularly in specific areas where new ideas are forcing, or at least allowing, more radical rethinks. But overall it'll be a complete mess for some time to come.
Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
>In this case, the demand is “the ability to express myself to a huge audience.” People are willing to pay to do that. Because of that, they see any job where they get to do it as a net positive, even if the job is horrible. This is true for any job that is just an extension of a hobby. People put on local community theater productions in their spare time because they find it fun and fulfilling. You don't have to pay…
And the type of software people make for free is not the same software people get paid to create. I bet few people would be eager to develop banking software on their free time for instance.
Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t know, I think Jason knows a lot more about this stuff than we do. The supply/demand thing, I wish he omitted because it lets people look at things way too reductionist. It’s actually very difficult to look at a salary and have that tell you something about supply and demand for a job. It’s obviously not that simple. In particular, it would be impossible to look at that figure and try to make heads or tails of…
> I don’t think it’s about supply and demand for game developer pay either If there was a shortage of game developers, employers would be forced to give much better benefits and compensation to retain and hire staff (and probably there would be a lot less games and studios). There may be more to the analysis, but I don't agree that you can ignore supply and demand and turn this into just oppressor greedy guy vs oppre…
A more enlightened view of compensation, if you need a more general economic way of looking at it, is: "In a world where most of economic value exists in human relationships or in computation, compensation is more about (1) how accounting reflects that economic reality, and (2) how well the compensated individual extracts accounting value from whatever big picture the accountants came up with."
In that sense, unions are exactly the remedy, because they negotiate how these employees are paid relative to the accounting value of their business.
It's all accounting! I can't emphasize this enough--you can pay the employees 2x as much, or 10x as much, or 1/2x as much, and Fortnite will be EXACTLY as fun as it is now. That's what people are outraged about.
This is totally unlike another notoriously unionized industry, autos, where a lot of the value is tied up in really objective, physical stuff like gas mileage or maintenance. Most of the economic value of Fortnite is in the experiences it makes between friends and the computer code consistently delivering that experience, whether on your phone or in the servers.
Supply/demand as the framework is kind of a stupid point of view. We can't listen to too many finance/economics people, especially the rich ones we actually hear from as opposed to the poor ones who may be right but whom we don't give a shit about. The rich ones aren't in the ground level of humanity anymore. That's what the perspective on HN is really about: sorting out which rich person you agree with.
But if you want to do the right thing, you unionize because it will get these people paid better and feel happier at basically no economic cost.
Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
>In this case, the demand is “the ability to express myself to a huge audience.” People are willing to pay to do that. Because of that, they see any job where they get to do it as a net positive, even if the job is horrible. This is true for any job that is just an extension of a hobby. People put on local community theater productions in their spare time because they find it fun and fulfilling. You don't have to pay…
And the type of software people make for free is not the same software people get paid to create. I bet few people would be eager to develop banking software on their free time for instance.
In that case, banking software would be very useful for the community and people will help.
The fact that something is boring has nothing to do with it. There are few things as boring as developing operating systems like Hurd or developing Wayland and dealing all day with bugs and bugs and more bugs.
Of course, people is not going to create banking software if the only ones who benefit are private companies that give nothing in return.
There must be a good reason. Something that provides the sense of deep meaning for your work. Working for free so a private company could profit out of your work does not.