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Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

nytimes.com

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Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#31

Post by gavman »

> For many kids who grew up with controllers in their hands, being a game developer is a dream job, so when it comes to talent, supply is higher than demand.

That's the crux of this entire article in one sentence. This might be an upopular opinion here, but right now the supply of developers overall [across all industries] is much lower than demand. No one is forcing a developer to work for a game studio. It might be your dream job, but if you're not treated well you're a highly talented skilled worker, go work for someone else. Let the supply diminish because of the working conditions and alternatives and suddenly studios won't have the option to treat their employees this way.

edit: typos

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#32

Post by lovetocode »

ed312 wrote: post #20
lovetocode wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A developer can go make crud web applications like the rest of us. There are options to get out of it they just don’t want to take them. I don’t know if this rings true for graphics artists, game designers, etc. But a programmer who develops game code can probably write a web app too without too much struggle

I did exactly what you described. Unfortunately there is an endless supply of fresh grads (and even very talented amateurs with no schooling) willing to work absolutely slave-like conditions to "live the dream".

Fair enough and 100% true. It almost feels like we need to police up the expectations of junior developers and teach them proper work life balance. But they are going to do what they are going to do I suppose.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#33

Post by krageon »

trpc wrote: post #15
aarpmcgee wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so?

I can't describe it in a small comment. The more you reach the top of the food chain the more you will understand.

This is survivor bias in that the only people that get to the top are capable of understanding.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#34

Post by hannasanarion »

jfk13 wrote: post #21
samcday wrote: post #5

> In many of these cases, laid-off employees had no idea what was coming. One developer at a major studio told me in February that he and his colleagues had been crunching — putting in long hours, including nights and weekends — for a video game release, only to be suddenly told that security was waiting to escort them off the premises. Man, that really sucks, if you think about it. I'm sure many people here on HN ha…

In a civilised society, it would be illegal for an employer to behave like that. (Yes, I know, I'm imposing my view of what it would mean to be "civilised", and not everyone will agree.)

There are plenty of countries where all employers are required to give certain notice, and you can't suddenly fire someone. It is outrageous that your ability to eat and pay rent can be taken away with zero notice in America.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#35

Post by midnightclubbed »

Jason has done great work exposing the dysfunctional and exploitative parts of the game industry.

However I am not so sure the issues are unique to games; bad management, product re-designs/pivots, underpaid support staff, investors with deadlines and expectations of ROI.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#36

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

jfk13 wrote: post #21
samcday wrote: post #5

> In many of these cases, laid-off employees had no idea what was coming. One developer at a major studio told me in February that he and his colleagues had been crunching — putting in long hours, including nights and weekends — for a video game release, only to be suddenly told that security was waiting to escort them off the premises. Man, that really sucks, if you think about it. I'm sure many people here on HN ha…

In a civilised society, it would be illegal for an employer to behave like that. (Yes, I know, I'm imposing my view of what it would mean to be "civilised", and not everyone will agree.)

No name calling is necessary - you can replace "civilised society" with "Europe" and the sentence will hold true for the most part.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#37

Post by hannasanarion »

lovetocode wrote: post #24
kabacha wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you come off a bit rough on victim blaming you do have a point. Video-game developers should have formed a union long time ago but here we are. I somewhat lack sympathy when the industry is clear as water about abuse like this yet people still go into it without precaution.

Fair enough and you are probably right. I come from the position that you can only beat a dog so long before it bites back. But I feel like this could have been prevented if developers weren’t so enamored with the idea of developing games. Yeah it’s cool but it’s not cool enough to throw your dignity away.

And so you kill the dog and get another. People who want to make games are not in short supply.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#38

Post by Pfhreak »

whatshisface wrote: post #19
Pfhreak wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked in the industry they believe it's necessary. I got yoked into a mandated long weekend and was laughed out of the room when I demanded a retrospective. Long hours is a failure, we should know what failed so it doesn't happen again. Their response? That's just the way it is in games. Absolutely zero desire or acknowledgement that it should be different.

If they're wrong in thinking that it's necessary, then anyone who comes in with an enlightened view will put them out of business and take over the market.

Some shops are doing well and are crunch free. Not sure at the AAA level yet, but definitely at the big indie level.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#39

Post by whatshisface »

Pfhreak wrote: post #27
lovetocode wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s toxic culture at the leadership level. When my employer asks for some outrageous development on a compressed time schedule I speak my mind. Maybe that’s why most AAA games suck these days.

In my experience it was the ic level. Leadership would say, what's a reasonable timeline for feature x. The engineers would spend two hours arguing that estimates are bullshit, then give a trivially small (and obviously wrong) estimate. Leadership would say, are you sure? Engineers would basically flip them the bird and say yes. Then inevitably be late. I get it, estimating is inexact. But there's a clear difference…

Why wouldn't they give a trivially large (and very safe) estimate? Telling someone you will be finished tomorrow puts the onus on you to explain why your estimate was wrong.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#40

Post by lovetocode »

krageon wrote: post #26
lovetocode wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s toxic culture at the leadership level. When my employer asks for some outrageous development on a compressed time schedule I speak my mind. Maybe that’s why most AAA games suck these days.

If you can still compensate or halt it by speaking your mind, your leadership still has a long way to slide down the toxicity scale.

You are right. And to be clear my current work environment is not toxic which is why I can do this as you said.
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