Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job • Hacker News Board

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#11

Post by kabacha » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

While you come off a bit rough on victim blaming you do have a point. Video-game developers should have formed a union long time ago but here we are.

I somewhat lack sympathy when the industry is clear as water about abuse like this yet people still go into it without precaution.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#12

Post by ed312 » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

Throughout my childhood I enjoyed playing and making games. I eventually studied a mixture of CS and digital art in college in order to join the game industry. It was a dream job to me in so many ways - I imagined an open, friendly culture of people working together to create an immersive experience. The reality: minimum wage entry level, planned for "crunch" time >3 months long, constant fear of running out of "runway" (money), etc. All of this culminated with the company simply stopping paying people for a month before eventually shutting down. I tried one more game company (really just a fb/ios thinly-veiled gambling app) before I quit the industry for good. That was roughly 5 years ago - at this point I'm _just_ starting to re-kindle my love for games and creativity.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#13

Post by lovetocode » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

sageabilly wrote: post #9

lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

If every single employer has the same work conditions, then what? If the state of the industry as a whole is low pay and unpaid overtime, then it's not like a developer can just go to a better job.

A developer can go make crud web applications like the rest of us. There are options to get out of it they just don’t want to take them. I don’t know if this rings true for graphics artists, game designers, etc. But a programmer who develops game code can probably write a web app too without too much struggle

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#14

Post by kabacha » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:38 PM UTC

sageabilly wrote: post #9

lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

If every single employer has the same work conditions, then what? If the state of the industry as a whole is low pay and unpaid overtime, then it's not like a developer can just go to a better job.

Unions is a solution we got kinda nailed long time ago.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#15

Post by trpc » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:38 PM UTC

aarpmcgee wrote: post #7

trpc wrote: post #3

Legally exploiting others and making a fortune is a dream job. EDIT: not my belief btw, this is how things mostly work in the business world but most people who do that aren't self conscious enough to recognize that

How so?

I can't describe it in a small comment. The more you reach the top of the food chain the more you will understand.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#16

Post by Pfhreak » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:39 PM UTC

tluyben2 wrote: post #2

Not anymore no. It used to be when I did it in the 80s and 90s. It grew up and it is hell now (if I may believe my friends in the industry). Edit; come to think about it: I made games a few years ago; educational games for government, utilities, zoos and education for money, so a job and that was still fun and really quite a dream job imho. But not big open world fps ofcourse :) Nice 2d games which is like the most a…

Heh, I wouldn't say grown up. The work environment I had in games was an hr nightmare.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#17

Post by Creationer » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:40 PM UTC

These conditions don't seem to be very different from many other American businesses. Unpaid overtime, minimal notification during layoffs.

Video games get a lot of attention because they are the ultimate consumer product. Workers being treated similarly at a glass factory or an accounting form wouldn't make the news.

Unionisation isn't going to solve fundamentally poor corporate performance or mismanagement. Ultimately people need to be willing to walk away from bad jobs.

The best thing that has actually happened recently for game developers is the creation of the Epic store on PC - giving 88% of revenue to developers, instead of the 70% of many others stores. Its odd so many people seem to oppose that store on one hand, and support unionisation on the other.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#18

Post by lovetocode » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:41 PM UTC

Pfhreak wrote: post #10

lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

Having worked in the industry they believe it's necessary. I got yoked into a mandated long weekend and was laughed out of the room when I demanded a retrospective. Long hours is a failure, we should know what failed so it doesn't happen again. Their response? That's just the way it is in games. Absolutely zero desire or acknowledgement that it should be different.

It’s toxic culture at the leadership level. When my employer asks for some outrageous development on a compressed time schedule I speak my mind. Maybe that’s why most AAA games suck these days.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#19

Post by whatshisface » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:42 PM UTC

Pfhreak wrote: post #10

lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

Having worked in the industry they believe it's necessary. I got yoked into a mandated long weekend and was laughed out of the room when I demanded a retrospective. Long hours is a failure, we should know what failed so it doesn't happen again. Their response? That's just the way it is in games. Absolutely zero desire or acknowledgement that it should be different.

If they're wrong in thinking that it's necessary, then anyone who comes in with an enlightened view will put them out of business and take over the market.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#20

Post by ed312 » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:43 PM UTC

lovetocode wrote: post #13

sageabilly wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If every single employer has the same work conditions, then what? If the state of the industry as a whole is low pay and unpaid overtime, then it's not like a developer can just go to a better job.

A developer can go make crud web applications like the rest of us. There are options to get out of it they just don’t want to take them. I don’t know if this rings true for graphics artists, game designers, etc. But a programmer who develops game code can probably write a web app too without too much struggle

I did exactly what you described. Unfortunately there is an endless supply of fresh grads (and even very talented amateurs with no schooling) willing to work absolutely slave-like conditions to "live the dream".