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Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

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Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#291

Post by FireBeyond »

gnicholas wrote: post #238
SEJeff wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I do own a Tesla, and it does not drive like any other car I've drove or ridden in during my lifetime. My Dad says it is like being in a space ship. No, no, and no. Would I like Mercedes/BMW/Lexus/Audi/Jaguar to have electric vehicles? Yes I absolutely would! But would you have over the air updates, a push towards self driving (even if they're not there yet!), and a very strong push towards sustainable ma…

Not only do ICE car companies not issue OTA software updates, some use the same software for driver assist features for years in a row. I had heard good things about Subaru's EyeSight system and went to check out the 2019s Outback. I was floored to learn that the system is no smarter than it was in 2017, when this version came out. Are they not learning from the millions of miles their customers have driven in the la…

> Not only do ICE car companies not issue OTA software updates

Not true. In fact Jeep did this. And many of the same people who praised Tesla were saying "OMG, vulnerability vector" when it was Jeep.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#292

Post by ineedasername »

Domenic_S wrote: post #199
ineedasername wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. They may have a lead on battery tech etc., but I wouldn't say it's a commanding lead. Given a few other EV options that come close in range, other manufacturers seem likely to keep plugging away on their own tech rather than rely on someone else with marginal & decreasing advantages. On drive train, motors, etc., established manufacturers have decades more comparable experience they can bring to bea…

This take seems really dismissive of the technological lead Tesla has vs competitors, the difficulty of the engineering work, and seems to assume that Tesla will stay still while competitors move closer. There are some nice teardowns comparing T's battery system vs. the BMW i3 and Bolt showing the substantial differences/advantages in tech.

I'm not dismissing the tech itself, I'm dismissing it's capabilities relevant to competitors as being insufficient to make those competitors rely on a competing manufacturer for a core component of their car. And also that upcoming competitor vehicles are poised to capture the lower end market before Tesla gets there. Once Tesla gets there they'll have quality associated with their brand to carry them some way, but it may be an uphill battle against competitors who've been entrenched for a few years.

I'm not discounting their chances, I'm just saying it's very, very far from an automatic win for them. Far from a pivot to OEM, I'd be more inclined to bet that one of the big manufacturers that is lagging on EV's acquires them.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#293

Post by iknowstuff »

quest88 wrote: post #280
yumraj wrote: post #101

I think it's more or less generally agreed that Tesla has the best in class battery, charger and perhaps drive train, including motors, technology. However, they have a single car plant and struggle with production and quality, after sales support and so on. I wonder, as a thought experiment, if Tesla would be more successful if they become the OEM, providing their technology to the various car manufacturers. Somethi…

Tesla just buys panasonic batteries ( https://electrek.co/2018/07/31/tesla-gigafactory-panasonic-b... ). The technology is kinda shit - why distract the driver with a touch screen instead of physical buttons and knobs (those are considered technology too)?. The only thing Tesla has is some form of self driving, and that won't be enough.

They manufacture cells WITH Panasonic and they have their unique chemistry, as seen in the more durable cells manufactured for Powerwall/Powerpack.

The touchscreen allows for amazing software updates and looks cleaner. The most important functions are on the steering wheel and the - pretty great - voice control available via a press of one of the wheels on the steering wheel.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#294

Post by [deleted] »

ajross wrote: post #278
twblalock wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jaguar is part of Tata. If Tata gets good at manufacturing electric cars in large quantities it would be a big deal.

The point was more that Tesla has already scaled beyond the level where "these companies know how to build cars" is reasonable spin. Tesla's building plenty of cars, making money doing so, scaling rapidly, and can only be expected to be doing better still by the time those competitors arrive in the market. That's not to say that they won't be highly competetive cars, they might (I for one certainly hope they are). Bu…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#295

Post by djanogo »

legitster wrote: post #287
steelframe wrote: post #233

Data point: I'm a current Tesla owner who during Q1 was in the market for replacing my remaining gas-powered car with an EV. Looking at the options available, the direction I'm seeing with respect to charging infrastructure, and the character of the company (yes, there's a touchy-feely part to me), I went with a Jaguar I-PACE instead of another Tesla. I feel that directly contributed to at least one lost potential sa…

Mazda developed their physical controls by blindfolding testers and making sure they could use everything on touch alone. In comparison, Tesla's approach of putting everything in a single touchscreen is a cost cutting measure being sold as trendy BS. And dangerous to boot.

"putting everything in a single touchscreen is a cost cutting measure being sold as trendy BS" this, I am amazed at number of people (mainly investors) who think this is a _feature_ and something other OEM's envy. Even the damn McKinsey report shows that OEM's have to do this cut about $1800 in costs which will help bring EV's to mainstream in the next decade.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#296

Post by brohee »

_red wrote: post #52
SEJeff wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admittedly a biased source, but their reasoning seems sensible: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-greener-think-getting-greene... As the cost of solar + wind + static storage drop, the more renewable energy sources are used to power factories. The more renewable source used to power factories, the greater the impact on the vehicle. In this, Tesla leads the way.

It is helpful that the author quantified some of the issues, however there are many factors involved: * Does the authors CO2 estimates for battery production actually include "mining" or just "assembly"? From reading it, it seems to just include assembly of final components into a battery. * Moving tons of rare-earth minerals from Point A to Point B for battery production requires yet more CO2 output. * Wind + Solar…

Which rare earth are you talking about, and in which quantity?

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#297

Post by dreaminvm »

ajross wrote: post #278
twblalock wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jaguar is part of Tata. If Tata gets good at manufacturing electric cars in large quantities it would be a big deal.

The point was more that Tesla has already scaled beyond the level where "these companies know how to build cars" is reasonable spin. Tesla's building plenty of cars, making money doing so, scaling rapidly, and can only be expected to be doing better still by the time those competitors arrive in the market. That's not to say that they won't be highly competetive cars, they might (I for one certainly hope they are). Bu…

I am not sure that's a fair statement. The other manufacturers (most, but especially in the luxury segments) build higher quality cars with much lower rates of error. Tesla enthusiasts (much like early adopters of things) are forgiving and overlook a lot of imperfections (fit and finish on teslas vary greatly -see Youtube reviews). This has been the primary reason holding me back for purchasing one.

Tesla's existing accomplishments and ability to meet tough goals is admirable, but their first to market advantage is starting to fade away as more companies bring to market competitive cars without the quality issues (however few they might be pumping out for now).

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#298

Post by sangnoir »

thebeefytaco wrote: post #105
yumraj wrote: post #101

I think it's more or less generally agreed that Tesla has the best in class battery, charger and perhaps drive train, including motors, technology. However, they have a single car plant and struggle with production and quality, after sales support and so on. I wonder, as a thought experiment, if Tesla would be more successful if they become the OEM, providing their technology to the various car manufacturers. Somethi…

Didn't Tesla already open source all their patents?

Only if you never sue Tesla for anything - including them infringing your patents

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#299

Post by SEJeff »

philwelch wrote: post #284
SEJeff wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The last "new" American car manufacturer was GM, which was founded September 16, 1908 in Flint, MI. "ha ha ha Tesla is so bad at logistics, they suck so much! Look how much better everyone else is!" Imagine how much better I'd be at literally anything if you gave me a > 100 year head start!

Not only do countries other than the United States exist, but many of them are considerably better at car manufacturing.

Sure, but the article is about a new American car company, and we are discussing problems with production ramp. People often use GM or Ford for comparison, and I'm pointing out the silliness.

Most of the EU based car manufacturers are even older than GM / Ford.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#300

Post by leesec »

justtopost wrote: post #89
kasey_junk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am definitely uneducated & also unlikely to ever buy a luxury car at the Tesla price point. But if I weren’t what electric car would I buy?

You would not buy electric if well versed in automotive tech. Notice few if any mechanics drive ecars.

This is so arrogant and wrong.
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