Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#281

Post by sweeeety » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

close04 wrote: post #260

sweeeety wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely, it is my subjective experience but what I can say is that lot of high skilled immigrants here in Denmark don't feel welcome [0]. Whereas, in the USA, we were really proud to be there and contribute to the society and eventually become permanent resident / citizen. Legislation in the USA varies a lot, unless we talk about immigration. Which in my case here in EU, as spouse of EU citizen, is also being scru…

Then I would rather say the issue is with Denmark (laws, politicians, people, whoever you see as the main culprit) rather than a European issue. Denmark is one of the smaller countries (size and population) in the EU so generalizing based on that example seems like an overreaction. Also I can't find any reference anywhere supporting the idea that physical abuse from the locals is a common practice in Denmark. There's…

You are right that it might be a particular problem from Denmark but I also see it is common to share the positiveness of EU across all States (like saying assuming quality health care is universal across EU) but single out negativities when convenient.

The use case pointed with Mississippi is one of those absurd edge cases. It would be more suitable to say you don't generalize the USA as a country full of pick trucks or people carrying concealed guns, even if that might be more common in some states and illegal/uncommon in others.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#282

Post by netsharc » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

JoshTko wrote: post #27

I think this Vox video explains it well. TLDR American TV does a good job distracting people from real issues in order to keep funneling funds to the rich. My guess is European elites are catching on to American tactics and are following suit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNineSEoxjQ&t=100s

I feel like the UK is there or close to it... the elite managed to fool half the population to vote for economic self-destruction (with a bus!), and hiding behind it is a future with less regulation, which means more chance for exploitation...

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#283

Post by dantheman » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

dougmwne wrote: post #274

cloverich wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree to the advantages / disadvantages in general, but I think a lot of people push back because it does not jive with personal experience. In my case, my parents grew up poor with blue collar immigrant parents, but became successful and (in my fathers case) eventually wealthy. Conversely, growing up I knew _many_ people who grew up with much more financial and family stability than I had, who just threw it all aw…

That's fair, and I don't mean to sound absolute because most things in life are not. https://www.epi.org/publication/usa-lags-peer-countries-mobi... "U.S. mobility is among the lowest of major industrialized economies." So in other words, birth privilege is strongly correlated with future earnings in the USA, but less so in other industrialized countries. We still have more economic mobility than many countries, but…

The scale of mobility is different, in the USA you can be much more wealthy. That's thrkwd direct comparisons like this off. If every is relatively poor then mobility is really high and uncorrelated with parent wealth.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#284

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #253

pnutjam wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The message of American conservatism is, "I've got mine, go get yours". Meanwhile the gots are pulling up the ladder behind them wherever they can. This message tends to resonate with people with little empathy and imagination. They can only see their own experience and find it impossible to imagine another's could be different. Basically, these people are kind of dumb. They don't notice the ladder being pulled away…

For those more economically minded: We know that 1$ given to poverty will return the economy somewhere along $1.12, while $1 given to wealth will return the economy somewhere along $0.7. There requires no empathy to conclude that providing for our neediest appears to be economically beneficial for everyone, assuming economic growth is a good thing. I understand and accept that certain poeple do not give a damn about…

[deleted]

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#285

Post by exelius » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

quaffapint wrote: post #252

exelius wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue against the author’s entire premise. The nature of (white collar) work is changing, even in America. I work a job that is 80% remote. I work from a coffee shop in the morning (and in fact, I am there right now!) I block my calendar and go work out whenever I feel like it. I rented a mountain cabin for a month and went skiing every day while working in the mornings and evenings. I get my work done and sh…

While I agree that is the future for now that is very much the exception for most of the country.

It’s changing pretty quickly at big companies; most of my friends are in a similar position. If you’re already working on a global team, it doesn’t matter much where you sit.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#286

Post by chumali » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

pr0tocol_7 wrote: post #211

lupire wrote: post #19

This is the blathering of spoiled rich kid on vacation. > In London, Paris, Berlin, I hop on the train, head to the cafe — it’s the afternoon, and nobody’s gotten to work until 9am, and even then, maybe not until 10 — order a carefully made coffee and a newly baked croissant, do some writing, pick up some fresh groceries, maybe a meal or two, head home — now it’s 6 or 7, and everyone else has already gone home around…

100% Except its not a spoiled rich kid, it's a man with "20 years of experience in technology" who is most certainly not a poor american.

Daniel Miller is not the author of this piece. It is in fact Umair Haque, who (although I agree with the overarching point of this particular thesis) tends to churn poorly reasoned pseudo economic drivel designed purely for mass appeal.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#287

Post by dgudkov » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #20

> In London, Paris, Berlin, I hop on the train, head to the cafe — it’s the afternoon, and nobody’s gotten to work until 9am, and even then, maybe not until 10 — order a carefully made coffee and a newly baked croissant, do some writing, pick up some fresh groceries, maybe a meal or two, head home — now it’s 6 or 7, and everyone else has already gone home around 5 — and watch something interesting, maybe a documentar…

>An old joke - "Every MBA in America dreams of starting a billion dollar business. Every MBA in Europe dreams of starting a satellite office of the American business."

Sounds more like an American joke rather than European.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#288

Post by Frost1x » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #180

bepotts wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans don't believe the onus is on the whole to make sure the individual lives a happy life. We just don't have the collectivist culture the Europeans have. I think this is a great thing, and is why America is where most of the innovation, cultural, and political power is. I personally have lower taxes, high quality healthcare, and live in an awesome location, and I got all of that through an education and traini…

> I think this is a great thing, and is why America is where most of the innovation, cultural, and political power is. No, that's just a byproduct of being wealthy -- which is a byproduct of starting with looting a huge plot of land, not being left devastated by 2 world wars (420K Americans died in WWII, for contrast millions of people died in European countries each with 1/5 to 1/20th the population of the US), not…

Much of the modern business models I've seen basically try to minimize research and innovative work because it's costly and risky. It's far easier to wait for other venture to succeed and either buy the strategies early while they're cheap (even though they may not be well marketsble) or simply copy the successful models to become competitors, trying best to avoid infringement lawsuits but writing them off as a cost of business. These approaches are more cost effective and help maximize ROI then the innovation process.

US business is becoming increasingly efficient at accumulating and concentrating capital while producing less innovation for society at large by utilizing a variety of tactics that break much of the picturesque model of capitalism.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#289

Post by close04 » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

infinite_luck wrote: post #262

close04 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and even landmines with not a single gap Really? Are you talking about the landmines in Croatia that weren't fully cleared after the 1990s Balkan war? People were actually providing maps with the approximate locations of the fields so they can be safely bypassed. You make it sound like Europe is planting mines to keep migrants out. If the reaction of a small minority of European countries (2-3) seems exaggerated wh…

On that wikipedia page you linked, the 7000 (or 10000 since 1994) deaths are from all combined sources. The vast majority of those seem to be from exposure to the elements (for instance hypothermia is one of the most common causes of death) or accidents. If you read the part of that page that talks about Border Agents' use of force, around 17 deaths are listed, with an additional 10 left disabled. Your use of that so…

Which is no different from the landmines that "Europeans" (one country) "use" (still have them after an atrocious war) to keep migrants out. This was my point.

It felt like a "whatabout" reaction and no effort was made to remove the impression that mines are actually employed with the purpose of keeping migrants out.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#290

Post by Frost1x » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 4:44 PM UTC

dantheman wrote: post #283

dougmwne wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair, and I don't mean to sound absolute because most things in life are not. https://www.epi.org/publication/usa-lags-peer-countries-mobi... "U.S. mobility is among the lowest of major industrialized economies." So in other words, birth privilege is strongly correlated with future earnings in the USA, but less so in other industrialized countries. We still have more economic mobility than many countries, but…

The scale of mobility is different, in the USA you can be much more wealthy. That's thrkwd direct comparisons like this off. If every is relatively poor then mobility is really high and uncorrelated with parent wealth.

Or those are considered outliers.

While those rags-to-riches cases are true data points, they are not representative of the population sample. They are the exception despite the strong correlation, likely due to another contributing factor (sheer random luck, great financial earning abilities, etc.).