Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#231

Post by matthieubrg » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

bepotts wrote: post #106

cribbles wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason that Europe has very few innovative new companies created in the last 25 years is that everyone is at the coffee shop writing poetry. This does not dispute the central point of the quoted piece, which is that the quality of life of most Americans is very poor contrast to that of the average person in some subset of European countries. I would wager that most coffee shop employees are more concerned with…

Americans don't believe the onus is on the whole to make sure the individual lives a happy life. We just don't have the collectivist culture the Europeans have. I think this is a great thing, and is why America is where most of the innovation, cultural, and political power is. I personally have lower taxes, high quality healthcare, and live in an awesome location, and I got all of that through an education and traini…

"Morally right thing"... So you think it'd be immoral for you to pay a tiny bit more taxes to contribute to someone besides "you and your family" having a (better) life or simply not dying of a horrible disease? And what about "you and your family" get into a lot of health troubles at the same time (which I wish will never happen)...would it be immoral to have people from your country help you recover? I think the collectivist culture of Europe is what makes us better societies than the US. Because while you might say it every Sunday morning but do nothing about it, we actually help and protect the weaks and less fortunates and contribute to improve society in general and not just "you and your family".

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#232

Post by djanogo » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

seszett wrote: post #30

djanogo wrote: post #18

One constant thing in every country is there is always a narrative among certain percentage of population about how shitty their country is, America is no different, usually the people who feel this way are not nationalists. If you immigrated to US from third world country you would know how amazing this country is. It always be your choice to live how happily you want to live, you can quit wanting to climb the ladde…

> If you immigrated to US from third world country you would know how amazing this country is. Yes, compared to the third world country you come from . But that works for pretty much any other western country. It doesn't help comparing them between each other.

Not really, people who emigrated to certain European countries with more socialist economy try to get out of there, all my friends who moved to Europe left after 4 or 5 years, all 7 of them are in US now.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#233

Post by themagician » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #20

> In London, Paris, Berlin, I hop on the train, head to the cafe — it’s the afternoon, and nobody’s gotten to work until 9am, and even then, maybe not until 10 — order a carefully made coffee and a newly baked croissant, do some writing, pick up some fresh groceries, maybe a meal or two, head home — now it’s 6 or 7, and everyone else has already gone home around 5 — and watch something interesting, maybe a documentar…

American innovation today: we found a way to pay taxi drivers less than minimum wage and give them no benefits, while also avoiding state licensing.

So much of modern American innovation is just exploitation. Not but a decade ago we had a financial crisis that caused a global recession as a result of MBAs “getting shit done” and their innovative new financial products.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#234

Post by smnrchrds » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

freshm087 wrote: post #141

Improvotter wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In some other countries, your ethnicity/background/religion would get in the way far more than in the US. I completely disagree. I'm from Europe and applied to a few American-based companies and they all had these ridiculous forms related to anti-discrimination and the like. Is it that big of a problem in the US? That's whay I'm asking myself when I have to fill in those forms. Why do you have to know my ethnicity?…

Europe doesn't currently have a problem with building a wall to keep the Mexicans out or anything. This is plainly not true. EU has a lot of its own walls. It's just the fact that it lacks long land border with countries from which major migration flows originate is what makes it a lesser topic for debates. Why do you think migrants coming from the Middle East prefer to cross Aegean sea, instead of going by land? Bec…

Landmines? Aren't EU countries signatories to the Ottawa Treaty?

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#235

Post by ytNumbers » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

ergothus wrote: post #204

ytNumbers wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when health care is free (but rationed), there's a ton of people who are killed by delays to receiving a needed medical procedure. Every approach to health care has its down sides.

"Every approach has downsides" does not mean one approach isnt objectively worse than others...

Which approach is better is very difficult to objectively evaluate. There are a vast number of yardsticks you could use, and I can't see two people ever agreeing on which yardstick is the right one to judge a health care system. Since cancer is one of the top quickly fatal medical conditions, I consider the wait to get treated for cancer to be an excellent yardstick for evaluating any health care system. In this regard, the USA is way better than many countries that have government run free (but rationed) health care systems.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#236

Post by themagician » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #123

0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we convince people if they kill themselves for corporate, they'll get a minuscule slice of money from the top. American dream and all that. At least people in Europe have hobbies.

Most Americans enjoy a level of live that Most Europeans can only dream of. Large cars, very large houses, every product they buy is at least 20 to 30% cheaper, they have access to the latest technologies... the list goes on and on. Hobbies do not make up for the lack of opportunities.

I’m not sure I’d associate gluttony with opportunity, but to each their own I guess.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#237

Post by pnutjam » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:08 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #154

bepotts wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans don't believe the onus is on the whole to make sure the individual lives a happy life. We just don't have the collectivist culture the Europeans have. I think this is a great thing, and is why America is where most of the innovation, cultural, and political power is. I personally have lower taxes, high quality healthcare, and live in an awesome location, and I got all of that through an education and traini…

"I personally have lower taxes, high quality healthcare, and live in an awesome location, and I got all of that through an education and training. That is available to almost every American if they just put in the work." I don't know if that's true. If I'm a child with food insecurity, my lack of nourishment, poor home life, overtaxed regional social programs, and government disincentives will cause me to be unable t…

The message of American conservatism is, "I've got mine, go get yours". Meanwhile the gots are pulling up the ladder behind them wherever they can.

This message tends to resonate with people with little empathy and imagination. They can only see their own experience and find it impossible to imagine another's could be different. Basically, these people are kind of dumb. They don't notice the ladder being pulled away and can't imagine a better way.

Unfortunately, these amount to a good 30% of Americans. Maybe those people were winnowed away during WW1/WW2 in europe, or maybe the way America was settled self selected for optimistic, unimaginative people with narrow vision.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#238

Post by themagician » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:08 PM UTC

AlphaGeekZulu wrote: post #173

ekianjo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans enjoy a level of live that Most Europeans can only dream of. Large cars, very large houses, every product they buy is at least 20 to 30% cheaper, they have access to the latest technologies... the list goes on and on. Hobbies do not make up for the lack of opportunities.

"Large cars, very large houses, every product they buy is at least 20 to 30% cheaper" Ahhh, large-ness and cheap-ness make a better living? (Oh my. Thread answered, in a way, though.)

I have more stuff and a bigger car than you and thus a better life. Murica. 🇺🇸

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#239

Post by close04 » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

freshm087 wrote: post #141

Improvotter wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In some other countries, your ethnicity/background/religion would get in the way far more than in the US. I completely disagree. I'm from Europe and applied to a few American-based companies and they all had these ridiculous forms related to anti-discrimination and the like. Is it that big of a problem in the US? That's whay I'm asking myself when I have to fill in those forms. Why do you have to know my ethnicity?…

Europe doesn't currently have a problem with building a wall to keep the Mexicans out or anything. This is plainly not true. EU has a lot of its own walls. It's just the fact that it lacks long land border with countries from which major migration flows originate is what makes it a lesser topic for debates. Why do you think migrants coming from the Middle East prefer to cross Aegean sea, instead of going by land? Bec…

> and even landmines with not a single gap

Really? Are you talking about the landmines in Croatia that weren't fully cleared after the 1990s Balkan war? People were actually providing maps with the approximate locations of the fields so they can be safely bypassed.

You make it sound like Europe is planting mines to keep migrants out. If the reaction of a small minority of European countries (2-3) seems exaggerated when faced with over 1 million (!) immigrants, then the fact that over 7000 people [0] were killed at the US-Mexico border just over the past 20 years should really shock you to the core.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrant_deaths_along_the_Mexic...

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#240

Post by sweeeety » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

close04 wrote: post #203

sweeeety wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to say this. I am a minority but never found myself misplaced in the USA. The country I came without much to offer but honest work and positive/open mind. Whereas in Europe I've been victim of physical abuse just because I am not white and the immigration path is also completely broken. There is suffering everywhere I lived Canada, USA, France, Denmark, Japan, Brazil. Some places take care better of the unp…

> I am a minority but never found myself misplaced in the USA > in Europe I've been victim of physical abuse just because I am not white and the immigration path is also completely broken I'm not contesting you actually had these experiences but yours must be an exceptional story. It contradicts the reality of a lot of people. But you make one big confusion that makes me question your experience with the systems. The…

Definitely, it is my subjective experience but what I can say is that lot of high skilled immigrants here in Denmark don't feel welcome [0]. Whereas, in the USA, we were really proud to be there and contribute to the society and eventually become permanent resident / citizen.

Legislation in the USA varies a lot, unless we talk about immigration. Which in my case here in EU, as spouse of EU citizen, is also being scrutinized by politicians here in Denmark [0].

[0]: https://www.thelocal.dk/20190327/opinion-stop-being-so-hosti...

edit: forgot to mention. My worst employer in the USA was ironically a Danish company (MeyersUSA hospitality group). They blatantly violated labor laws and sanitation requirements (sadly they managed to erase some of the negative reviews from Glassdoor).