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Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

danielsjourney.com

171–180 of 332 posts

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#171
I found this rather satisfying answer.

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

- John Steinbeck

Are you temporarily embarrassed?

You may not realise it, but you could be a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. Do you plan to someday in the future have more money? Are you concerned that your taxes are too high, because someday you might pay too much tax. Do you ride the bus only because this year you can’t afford that luxury car you’re going to have? Do you live pay cheque to pay cheque like most people just because you haven’t had your lucky break.

You aren’t rich and it’s very unlikely you ever will be. The economic and power systems of this planet are not designed for you to get rich. The American dream doesn’t exist and it never did. Stop being a temporarily embarrassed millionaire and just be a person.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#172

Well, the funny thing is that ‘America’ is the standard in lots of countries, even in places where many things are superior to the US. I’ve been to the US a few times, and the experience was abysmal. I didn’t expect 1Gbps public Wifis in public transportation (well, we have them), but... I mean, super dirty subways and buses that don’t go much (moving only with public transportation and foot was a painful experience)…

" I’ve been to the US a few times" - Clearly then you are a registered expert on the United States socio-economic system :)

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we convince people if they kill themselves for corporate, they'll get a minuscule slice of money from the top. American dream and all that. At least people in Europe have hobbies.

Most Americans enjoy a level of live that Most Europeans can only dream of. Large cars, very large houses, every product they buy is at least 20 to 30% cheaper, they have access to the latest technologies... the list goes on and on. Hobbies do not make up for the lack of opportunities.

"Large cars, very large houses, every product they buy is at least 20 to 30% cheaper"

Ahhh, large-ness and cheap-ness make a better living?

(Oh my. Thread answered, in a way, though.)

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#174
post #19

This is the blathering of spoiled rich kid on vacation. > In London, Paris, Berlin, I hop on the train, head to the cafe — it’s the afternoon, and nobody’s gotten to work until 9am, and even then, maybe not until 10 — order a carefully made coffee and a newly baked croissant, do some writing, pick up some fresh groceries, maybe a meal or two, head home — now it’s 6 or 7, and everyone else has already gone home around…

Europe is not the example I would use to tear down myths of American exceptionalism because Europe has its own myth of European exceptionalism. Europe has a cultural context that radically diverged from the Americas: the whole 19th century was a series of bloody, pointless conflicts that made populations extremely suspicious of power and the ability to compel labor / service. In fact, I find Europe a poor comparison because the cultural values around work ethic are so different. A better analogue is South America: culturally we share a lot more values (especially around consumerism and the value of work, though South America tends to value workers) with our southern neighbors than our friends across the pond.

No, it’s when you visit the cities most Americans think of as “third world shitholes”: places like Mexico City, Bangkok, Manila, Lagos, Bogota... and you realize they have much more modern infrastructure with more accessible healthcare, better food, and more opportunity for social advancement. When you see how the quality of life is better — or at at least equivalent — in a “shithole country”, it really disabuses you of any previously-held notions that America is heads-and-shoulders above the rest of the world. We largely just trade individual happiness for a low unemployment rate and a high per-capita income (which is only high if you ignore how much more we spend on healthcare).

I’m a big fan of Factfulness by Hans Rosling. One of the most insightful things in the book is that our understanding of the situation on the ground in a far off culture is that any information we have about that place will perpetually be 10 years behind reality. This has more to do with cultural / language differences than anything; before western researchers even realize advancement is happening to know to measure it, the change has already achieved critical mass. And the pace of advancement has only gotten faster, meaning our perceptions of these places are even further behind the reality.

But if you don’t travel, you don’t see any of that. You just see what the news shows you; and that news is influenced by the sentiments of an audience comprised of people who largely don’t travel. So misunderstandings persist.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#175
post #18

One constant thing in every country is there is always a narrative among certain percentage of population about how shitty their country is, America is no different, usually the people who feel this way are not nationalists. If you immigrated to US from third world country you would know how amazing this country is. It always be your choice to live how happily you want to live, you can quit wanting to climb the ladde…

I love the US but we're rich enough to have all the amazing things they have in Europe and more (infrastructure, transportation, free healthcare, better schools). But we choose a bloated $1T defense budget, endless wars, and billionaire tax relief.

Totally agree with this. And I lived the American dream. Immigrated to US at 11 and went to Ivy League college. The US has been good to me. It is sad to travel to Europe and China to ride high speed rail and know that there will be no high speed rail in America in my lifetime. Sad!

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason that Europe has very few innovative new companies created in the last 25 years is that everyone is at the coffee shop writing poetry. This does not dispute the central point of the quoted piece, which is that the quality of life of most Americans is very poor contrast to that of the average person in some subset of European countries. I would wager that most coffee shop employees are more concerned with…

Americans don't believe the onus is on the whole to make sure the individual lives a happy life. We just don't have the collectivist culture the Europeans have. I think this is a great thing, and is why America is where most of the innovation, cultural, and political power is. I personally have lower taxes, high quality healthcare, and live in an awesome location, and I got all of that through an education and traini…

> That is available to almost every American if they just put in the work.

Some people "just" never had the opportunity of an education like yours. And through no fault of their own. It's easy to think they should have "just" put in some more work from where you are standing. But the deck was already stacked against them when they were born. It's very arrogant to think that you would have prevailed if you'd started out in their spot. It's incredibly unfair to justify your position on your hard work when this same path was just not available to other people. When it would have been much harder for them.

I'm using the statistical "you" for the person that lives a privileged life. That person comes from a privileged position to start with, statistically speaking. Maybe you the individual poster are an outlier, but that doesn't change the picture.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#178
post #20

> In London, Paris, Berlin, I hop on the train, head to the cafe — it’s the afternoon, and nobody’s gotten to work until 9am, and even then, maybe not until 10 — order a carefully made coffee and a newly baked croissant, do some writing, pick up some fresh groceries, maybe a meal or two, head home — now it’s 6 or 7, and everyone else has already gone home around 5 — and watch something interesting, maybe a documentar…

I can't think of any innovation the US has created recently, other than new various ways of undermining its own citizens.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans don't believe the onus is on the whole to make sure the individual lives a happy life. We just don't have the collectivist culture the Europeans have. I think this is a great thing, and is why America is where most of the innovation, cultural, and political power is. I personally have lower taxes, high quality healthcare, and live in an awesome location, and I got all of that through an education and traini…

Is that why people cannot afford insulin in America. This is something to be celebrated?

Even when health care is free (but rationed), there's a ton of people who are killed by delays to receiving a needed medical procedure. Every approach to health care has its down sides.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason that Europe has very few innovative new companies created in the last 25 years is that everyone is at the coffee shop writing poetry. This does not dispute the central point of the quoted piece, which is that the quality of life of most Americans is very poor contrast to that of the average person in some subset of European countries. I would wager that most coffee shop employees are more concerned with…

Americans don't believe the onus is on the whole to make sure the individual lives a happy life. We just don't have the collectivist culture the Europeans have. I think this is a great thing, and is why America is where most of the innovation, cultural, and political power is. I personally have lower taxes, high quality healthcare, and live in an awesome location, and I got all of that through an education and traini…

>I think this is a great thing, and is why America is where most of the innovation, cultural, and political power is.

No, that's just a byproduct of being wealthy -- which is a byproduct of starting with looting a huge plot of land, not being left devastated by 2 world wars (420K Americans died in WWII, for contrast millions of people died in European countries each with 1/5 to 1/20th the population of the US), not having any serious enemies within near borders, succeeding a couple of declining (due to national uprisings) colonial powers and so on.

When the US was not as wealthy, but still as much if not more individualistic, most innovations were coming from Europe (Watt, Volta, Faraday, Maxwell, Bell, Marconi, Siemens, Lumiere, Kelvin, and so on).

And a heck of a lot of innovations today (and increasingly more in the future) come from the hardly individualistic China, which, -like the hardly individualistic- Japan in the 70s and US in the 20th century, has gone over it's "copy cat" stage -- take DJI leading in drones, to Huawei P30 Pro leading in low light mobile photography as examples).

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