Django 2.2 • Hacker News Board

Re: Django 2.2

#201

Post by rlander » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 9:39 PM UTC

amatheus wrote: post #67

rlander wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just discovered repl driven development that lisp users have been advocating for years. Check it out in Clojure: https://vvvvalvalval.github.io/posts/what-makes-a-good-repl....

Well, python has had repl driven development for years too, notebooks only change the tooling around that if I’m not wrong.

Yes, Python does have a repl, but I've never seen anyone doing real "repl driven development" in Python in my 15+ years of using it (btw, just testing some code in the repl isn't anywhere near repl driven development). See the blog post linked above to understand what I'm talking about.

In Python, the repl is an accessory that helps testing small portions of code. In Clojure, the repl augments the editor, becoming an integral part of the development process.

My understanding of the parent argument was that the combo Django/Jupyter/pandas is "an ecosystem that's hard to beat" because of the tight feedback loop between writing the code and seeing what it does.

Re: Django 2.2

#202

Post by rlander » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 9:40 PM UTC

kickopotomus wrote: post #106

rlander wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just discovered repl driven development that lisp users have been advocating for years. Check it out in Clojure: https://vvvvalvalval.github.io/posts/what-makes-a-good-repl....

I think ipython/jupyter notebooks are more analogous to Clojure's REBL[0][1], which is very cool but not nearly as mature. [0]: https://github.com/cognitect-labs/REBL-distro [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c52QhiXsmyI

Thanks for the link, I'd never heard of REBL. Very cool!

Re: Django 2.2

#203

Post by misterdoubt » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 9:45 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #198

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue py3 has negative utility for that reason. Plus, the mess of 3.5 vs 3.6 vs 3.7.

What happened between those?

Nothing obviously a "mess." Your guess is as good as mine.

Re: Django 2.2

#204

Post by dec0dedab0de » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 9:53 PM UTC

rlander wrote: post #201

amatheus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, python has had repl driven development for years too, notebooks only change the tooling around that if I’m not wrong.

Yes, Python does have a repl, but I've never seen anyone doing real "repl driven development" in Python in my 15+ years of using it (btw, just testing some code in the repl isn't anywhere near repl driven development). See the blog post linked above to understand what I'm talking about. In Python, the repl is an accessory that helps testing small portions of code. In Clojure, the repl augments the editor, becoming an…

Ive never heard the term repl driven development, but I have been doing most of my coding in a jupyter/ipython notebook for around 7 years now and have been advocating it the whole time. The longer I do this the more I realize that I really need to try lisp

Re: Django 2.2

#205

Post by jtchang » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 9:59 PM UTC

orf wrote: post #147

This release includes the Watchman based reloader I worked on for about a year. It turns out auto reloading in Python is not an easy task, and I’m really nervous about edge cases I haven’t considered! I’ve actually had a nightmare where everyone’s auto reloader was broken. While it never runs in production (right?!) it’s actually a pretty critical bit of Django that had not been touched in about 10 years!

Well nothing like shipping code and letting all your users test it! Congrats.

Re: Django 2.2

#206

Post by thijsvandien » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 10:08 PM UTC

crimsonalucard wrote: post #170

Nextgrid wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Django is supposed to be the “Rails” of Python, allowing programmers who want a Rails-like experience to continue using Python instead of switching languages completely. If you don’t want “magic” then your solution is right - just use Flask.

The thing with the "magic" of django is that you don't need to use it! It's up to you whether you want to use the magic or not! The magic is powerful. The thing that turns users away is learning the magic.

Django's supposedly independent components were built with the context of the rest of Django in mind and have all kinds of default behaviors based on that. Surely they may work without the rest, but it isn't nearly as smooth as working with independent libraries that were designed with a much more limited scope.

Re: Django 2.2

#207

Post by dhshahsndeisjwn » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 10:11 PM UTC

fredley wrote: post #22

Django/Jupyter/pandas is an ecosystem that's hard to beat. If you're not already using it, check out `django-extensions`. You can use `./manage.py shell_plus --notebook` to launch a Django-friendly Jupyter notebook. From there you can prototype with extreme ease and confidence. I have also built a trivial custom model Manager so I can do stuff like: User.objects.all().to_dataframe("first_name", "last_name", "email")…

My god... I can't tell you how happy that just made made me. I've been using runserver_plus for code reloading for a while, but hadn't realised this could do the same for the shell. Thanks!

Re: Django 2.2

#208

Post by agiamas » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 10:12 PM UTC

sparkling wrote: post #28

Alex3917 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Django is still by far the best web framework as far as I can tell. Every couple years I check what's out there for GoLang, Rust, Nodejs, and Swift, and it seems like it will be a decade or more before anything else comes even close. Even though a lot of people don't like Django's ORM, at least it does almost everything you would want to do with Postgres. (And if you want more you can always use SqlAlchemy.) Most of…

I have used both Ruby on Rails and Django in large production web applications over 2+ years. Speaking strictly about the web framework, RoR is the slightly better framework IMHO. This includes but is not limited to: - cleaner internal APIs, models, methods - a lot more stuff that "just works" out of the box where you would need a third-party package in Django (e.g. RoR gives you different settings for development/st…

Being in a similar position, I wanted to post but your post is spot on. ML and DS have basically lifted Python and by association Django quite a lot...

Re: Django 2.2

#209

Post by jacobian » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 10:14 PM UTC

orf wrote: post #147

This release includes the Watchman based reloader I worked on for about a year. It turns out auto reloading in Python is not an easy task, and I’m really nervous about edge cases I haven’t considered! I’ve actually had a nightmare where everyone’s auto reloader was broken. While it never runs in production (right?!) it’s actually a pretty critical bit of Django that had not been touched in about 10 years!

Thank you! The new auto reloader is better by quite a bit. Many people have talked about doing this over the years, but nobody's been willing to do the grunt work and figure out all the corner cases, until you. Nice job!

Re: Django 2.2

#210

Post by milquetoastaf » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 10:20 PM UTC

ibejoeb wrote: post #152

mkolodny wrote: post #121

I love Django. I've used it for the last 8 years. I'm happy to see the project is still thriving. At this point, for me Django is pretty much synonymous with Django REST framework ( https://www.django-rest-framework.org/ ). I can't imagine a better API than Django w/ REST framework. For static sites I use Django's templates. Otherwise, I just use Django w/ REST framework for my API, and to serve up index.html. My ind…

DRF is awesome. If you're considering moving to or implementing GraphQL, though, Django + Graphile is amazingly productive and performant. No affiliation, just good experiences. https://www.graphile.org/postgraphile/

Oh man Graphile is exactly what I've been looking for my own project at work. And it worked right out of the box with one command. Thank you so very much!