European Parliament approves copyright reform • Hacker News Board

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#601

Post by selimthegrim » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 5:41 PM UTC

nkkollaw wrote: post #575

selimthegrim wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you spell out what about it worries you? As for Carlson: https://jezebel.com/tucker-carlson-seems-to-have-a-lot-of-fu...

> Can you spell out what about it worries you? Nothing worries me, really. I'm Italian and live in Poland, I care very little about France and what happens over there. I also care very little what other people do, and only comment on Macron because he's a public figure. I just think it's extremely creepy, and wonder how he managed to get elected despite that aspect of his personal life, and the fact that he's a banke…

I’m not saying it’s normal, but women having agency means a man can’t run a country all of a sudden? He’s somehow weak or compromised?

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#602

Post by ameister14 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 5:41 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #545

fs2 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is really no way for them to "spin" this into something positive for the people, because everyone can clearly see their ignorance and contempt for common people through legislation like this. It is fundamentally corrupt and should be abolished asap

> no way for them to "spin" this into something positive for the people I guess traditional content producers are not people, then. It's a complex world.

they are people, they are not the people.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#603

Post by Giorgi » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

If FB, Google or Yt gave a single damn shit, they could simply add message to their frontpages regarding this upcoming legislation.

Not doing so means they all have something to gain from this.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#604

Post by isostatic » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

marcodave wrote: post #286

sprash wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parliamentary democracy is a type of fake democracy that legitimizes tyranny. If people were able to vote directly Art. 17 would have never passed.

> If people were able to vote directly Art. 17 The cynical in me would complete the sentence with "...a vast majority would not even understand what the article is about"

Quite, I haven't got a clue on all the ins and outs, and I'm relatively clued up compared with most people I know. I've seen a lot of lobbying from google and co saying it shouldn't pass.

That's why I vote for people who can spend a lot of time looking at it and voting for or against it in parliament.

As it happens my preferred grouping were pretty much split evenly, there's certainly pros and cons.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#605

Post by Pharmakon » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

anoncake wrote: post #537

Pharmakon wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What I find many times here is a belief in pure systems ruled by logic and strict interpretations of language (again, programmer logic), while real life and politics are nothing like that. Again, this is where you’re running into problems. You’re confusing among other things, the branding with the reality. The DPRK has “democratic” in the name, but so what? Even in less blatant departures from the spirit of the thin…

> You’re confusing among other things, the branding with the reality. I have no idea how you got that idea considering I just wrote that the systems we call democracies may not be all that democratic in reality.

That’s not what I’m saying. Rather it’s a problem that “democratic” is largely an unhelpful term which obscures rather than reveals anything about a political system.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#606

Post by tyfon » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

jgowdy wrote: post #447

What amazes me is with GDPR, so many people were cheerleaders of Europe being the regulator of the internet. Regardless of what you think of GDPR, once we get a political body comfortable with the idea of regulating the internet, this is what we get. The next wall they're working on knocking down is the national sovereignty boundaries of the reach of laws. It's already in progress and soon we will have European natio…

GDPR isn't internet specific, it applies to private data in all companies also "offline" ones.

I've had to fill in a GDPR concent form on paper for my local car dealership and I put no to all forms of marketing.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#607

Post by mantas » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

IanCal wrote: post #533

ralala wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This also affects small online communities, who pay for their servers by running a few ads. There are a lot of these platforms.

Has the minimum size been taken out of A13? Earlier drafts I'm pretty sure had minimum turnover/staff counts which were far above small community scale (tens of millions/year).

No, but they added another rule that only platforms younger than 3 years get exemption.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#608

Post by ABCLAW » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #589

ABCLAW wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because now a startup has less than 3 years to add this content filtering, which provided as a service or not, is going to cost €€€. Not really? This isn't a flat 'you need to pay 10k a yr regardless of your size' imposition. Proportionality is important. The articles, as written, are interesting because they already mention a ton of the balancing considerations. All of those are completely absent in these conversat…

> Not really? This isn't a flat 'you need to pay 10k a yr regardless of your size' imposition. Proportionality is important. The problem is the proportionality requirements are poorly designed. It would be one thing if requirements increased solely with revenue, but increasing with time or user count is purely destructive. Plenty of small services will hit the time limit before they're big, and then the costs destroy…

>The problem is the proportionality requirements are poorly designed.

I don't think this is the issue. The requirements aren't set out in detail, and will largely be fleshed out by the courts. This is where the reality of Art. 13 will be set - in the rulings which follow.

Also, elements in a test don't react linearly in court judgements. Scaling from 100 users to 200 isn't going to suddenly mean that it's proportional for you to implement Content ID from scratch or that an applicable fine doubles.

The mental calculus I see here just doesn't take into account how courts work.

>That's a different problem. If there were real penalties for making false copyright claims then there wouldn't be so many fraudulent demand letters. I don't think as many people would be objecting to "copyright reform" if it did that.

I think most people can agree that the cut and dry abuse of copyright and copyright-adjacent systems should be penalized. But it is. Just not at the scale of individual content producers. If someone tried to extort you by placing false copystrikes on your work and you had proof, you would have a few torts or more general omnibus civil code provisions to use in most jurisdictions. But the cost and hassle of doing so might be higher than your expected return.

Justice doesn't scale linearly, which is a very, very big problem -- but not one that's unique to the Art 11/13 debate.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#609

Post by C14L » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

ralala wrote: post #182

Funes- wrote: post #76

This will be an unpopular perspective on the matter, so you have been warned: Article 13 only affects for-profit platforms that host and share copyrighted material. These platforms are run by big corporations that turn a huge profit by way of selling your personal data, violating your privacy, and having a persuasive (addictive) design in order to glue you to the screen so they can maximize their ad revenue, dismissi…

This also affects small online communities, who pay for their servers by running a few ads. There are a lot of these platforms.

This law will force them to migrate to Facebook and Youtube.

How ironic.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#610

Post by Zekio » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

ivolimmen wrote: post #453

koonsolo wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope they block the entire EU. And yes, I live in the EU. That way they need to shamefully roll back this law, and we're sure they don't try to pull off such a farce in the (near) future.

Or we post a huge load of original content of the EU pm's making sure we the people own the copyrights. Making their digital life a hell...

you could potentially email MEPs copyrighted work and they would be obligated to filter their emails