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Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

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Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#81
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe terrorizing the population into compliance is the point. I don't think you have to be a conspiracy theorist to believe that.

This puts the terrorist and the government firmly on the same side. Wasn't that the terrorists intention all along?

each depends on the other.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#82
What's the point of these drills? It's not like the cops are going to go into a school with an active shooter and stop him. They'll just wait outside while the children get killed and hope the shooter kills himself like in every other school shooting. Or maybe they like to practice murdering teachers and other innocent people since they think it's part of their job? Seems pretty insane the school would let them carry out their sick fantasies this way.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#83

"During active shooter drill, four teachers at a time were taken into a room, told to crouch down and were shot execution style with some sort of projectiles - resulting in injuries to the extent that welts appeared, and blood was drawn. ... The Indiana State Teachers Association is lobbying lawmakers to add language prohibiting teachers from being shot with any sort of ammunition to a school safety bill working its…

The cops will probably claim they felt in danger for their lives in this drill and the prosecutor will refuse to bring charges. Just another day at the office for these scumbags.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are licensing requirements with continuous daily background checks. The results speak for themselves. California has pretty much this, and in implementation is much stricter than Canada. The result? There are mass shootings here as well as lots of urban gun violence. New Zealand already has stricter gun laws than many places in the US. Throwing up your hands and saying it’ll never work without trying it is tant…

>>> California. It’s much easier to bring in illicit firearms across unmonitored state lines than national boundaries. >>> I'd rather have individual rights and armed guards in the schools and places of worship. Horrifying. So taking away everyone’s right to feel safe and secure? Wonderful. And to be alive. That’s the problem, life is always trade offs. I don’t feel comfortable with everyone armed, that infringed on…

> Any other country that took away guns, gun crime went down, that’s facts.

Latin America has many countries with restrictive gun control and widespread gun crime. Brazil and Mexico have actually relaxed gun control so people can defend themselves[1,2]

But even if your claim were true, who cares if gun crime goes down if overall murder and crime rates don't? Are people better off if killed or mugged with other weapons?

1: https://theglobalobservatory.org/2019/02/brazil-most-homicid...

2: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexicos-vigilantes-legalized-an...

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#85
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Martial arts are pretty useless when some nut has an assault rifle and other firearms at hand. This isn't a Hollywood movie.

A Hollywood caricature of martial arts might be useless. But my understanding of some martial arts is that they emphasize keeping a cool head, awareness of surroundings, deescalation and evasion over violent confrontation. Being even somewhat competent in those skills could prove valuable in an active shooter situation.

Exactly. The hardest part about martial arts in my opinion is the state of mind necessary to react to a situation appropriately.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#86
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The training is fairly reasonable for someone who has a reasonable expectation of engaging in combat. You need to drill reactions under duress until you stop thinking and just do what you've drilled instinctively. The problem is that that this is not a reasonable expectation for school teachers. They shouldn't and don't really have a statistically significant chance of seeing combat. They're also a population that st…

If you read the article it sounds like they just put them up against a wall and shot them in the back. It doesn't sound like training, it sounds more like punishment or hazing.

I did read the article, and I maintain that it is training. It can save lives. They're trying to make you more afraid of dying through inaction than dying through action, and get you familiar with the fear so you don't freeze. This sort of training can be traumatic but it can also be effective. For young high agressive males, it's high on effeciveness and arguably lower on trauma, and reasonably justified if they are going into combat. For your average middle age female school teacher who has probably never even been in a fist fight let alone a firefight and probably never will, it's largely ineffective, much more traumatic, and likely pointless. I'm sure there were even a few teachers in that session who got some benefit from it. What is training for one person can be hazing for another. Try stepping into a ring with a thai kickboxer for some medium sparing in preparation for a fight. For some people that's just another day at the gym, while for others it's assault, and the most violent traumatic thing they've ever experience. The training has to be calibrated to the students, and in this article it clearly wasn't. To me it sounds more like executive incompetence/misunderstanding than deliberate malice.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> California. It’s much easier to bring in illicit firearms across unmonitored state lines than national boundaries. >>> I'd rather have individual rights and armed guards in the schools and places of worship. Horrifying. So taking away everyone’s right to feel safe and secure? Wonderful. And to be alive. That’s the problem, life is always trade offs. I don’t feel comfortable with everyone armed, that infringed on…

> Any other country that took away guns, gun crime went down, that’s facts. Latin America has many countries with restrictive gun control and widespread gun crime. Brazil and Mexico have actually relaxed gun control so people can defend themselves[1,2] But even if your claim were true, who cares if gun crime goes down if overall murder and crime rates don't? Are people better off if killed or mugged with other weapon…

Brazil and Mexico are on the way to becoming failed states. If America moves towards a Mad Max future you can have your gun back. Until then, let's leave the shooting to the people trained to do so instead of literally anyone who wants to shoot. All the experts I've seen interviewed say people think they'll be awesome in a high-pressure situation like a shooting but unless they're actually trained specifically for it they'll likely harm people they didn't intend to.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#88
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The training is fairly reasonable for someone who has a reasonable expectation of engaging in combat. You need to drill reactions under duress until you stop thinking and just do what you've drilled instinctively. The problem is that that this is not a reasonable expectation for school teachers. They shouldn't and don't really have a statistically significant chance of seeing combat. They're also a population that st…

If you read the article it sounds like they just put them up against a wall and shot them in the back. It doesn't sound like training, it sounds more like punishment or hazing.

Also, these _were_ just recreational airsoft guns, very comparable paintball. Lots of people play airsoft and paintball for fun in their spare time. Yea, you're supposed to have goggles on, and point blank shots are frowned on 'cause they hurt more, but it's not all that bad. Sure you might end up with some bruising and broken skin particularly with close range shots to exposed skin, but I'll still play in shorts and tshirt on a hot day and if I get lit up on exposed skin, meh, at least I'm not sweating as much. For the guys running these trainings who are used to shooting each other with paintballs fired from real firearms, airsoft is consumer grade toys, one step above nerf guns. This situation is like having a cross training day between the competitive cagefighting gym and the over 50 cardio kickboxing class...there's just _so_ much potential for that to go poorly.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any other country that took away guns, gun crime went down, that’s facts. Latin America has many countries with restrictive gun control and widespread gun crime. Brazil and Mexico have actually relaxed gun control so people can defend themselves[1,2] But even if your claim were true, who cares if gun crime goes down if overall murder and crime rates don't? Are people better off if killed or mugged with other weapon…

Brazil and Mexico are on the way to becoming failed states. If America moves towards a Mad Max future you can have your gun back. Until then, let's leave the shooting to the people trained to do so instead of literally anyone who wants to shoot. All the experts I've seen interviewed say people think they'll be awesome in a high-pressure situation like a shooting but unless they're actually trained specifically for it…

There are places in America that aren't much better than Brazil or Mexico. There are other places in America where help is hours away and defending yourself is the only option. And places where hunting is still a means of feeding families, as well as the primary method of managing animal populations.

By all means, ban guns in New York and San Francisco if that's what the people of those cities want, but don't impose your needs on people who live completely different lives.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazil and Mexico are on the way to becoming failed states. If America moves towards a Mad Max future you can have your gun back. Until then, let's leave the shooting to the people trained to do so instead of literally anyone who wants to shoot. All the experts I've seen interviewed say people think they'll be awesome in a high-pressure situation like a shooting but unless they're actually trained specifically for it…

There are places in America that aren't much better than Brazil or Mexico. There are other places in America where help is hours away and defending yourself is the only option. And places where hunting is still a means of feeding families, as well as the primary method of managing animal populations. By all means, ban guns in New York and San Francisco if that's what the people of those cities want, but don't impose…

If there are parts of America as lawless as Brazil and Mexico you need to re-evaluate your priorities. Giving those people guns and wishing them the best is just horrifying. Figure out how to repair the situation instead. Mad Max wasn't meant to be instructional, you know.

I'd also suggest your opinions about America are pretty divorced from the realities on the ground.

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