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Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

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Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#51

Post by dashundchen »

jka wrote: post #21
AWildC182 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like a weird thing to say but exposing students (or anyone) to this seems like a really bad idea. By letting them experience that kind of terror, I feel it may give anyone with sociopathic tendencies 'ideas' and may influence them to seek that kind of control over others. We're all just the sum of our experiences and giving young impressionable kids terrifying experiences in the pursuit of protecting them…

It's not weird to say; that assessment makes sense to me and I'm fairly sure it would to others as well. Sociopathic kids will use the events and memories from the drills as triggers to intimidate and remind their peers of the threat - or as you say, even further as inspiration for actual attacks. And I'd be willing to bet there are some unusual psychological characteristics of the folks who perform these drills and…

Anecdotal but the mentality and culture of those I know who work in law enforcement in the US is quite frightening.

Referring to fellow citizens as civilians as if they were separate from them, obsessions with guns and military equipment, and maybe most visibly telling, mixing "blue line" symbols with things like "The Punisher" logo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punisher

> The character is an Italian-American[4][5] vigilante who employs murder, kidnapping, extortion, coercion, threats of violence, and torture in his campaign against crime. Driven by the deaths of his wife and two children who were killed by the mob for witnessing a killing in New York City's Central Park, the Punisher wages a one-man war on the mob and all violent criminals in general while employing the use of various firearms.[6] His family's killers were the first to be slain.[7] A war veteran and a United States Marine Corps Scout Sniper, Castle is skilled in hand-to-hand combat, guerrilla warfare, and marksmanship.[4][5]

> The Punisher's brutal nature and willingness to kill made him a novel character in mainstream American comic books when he debuted in 1974. By the late 1980s, the Punisher was part of a wave of psychologically-troubled antiheroes.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#52

Post by manfredo »

arcticbull wrote: post #28

You know, there are countries where this kind of thing doesn’t happen. Like, all of them. Know how many such drills we had in Canada? Zero. Probably because most guns are illegal so we don’t need them. That the solution isn’t gun control but instead making it illegal to shoot teachers unexpectedly with airsoft rifles is evidence of how insanely beyond the pail US gun policy and the whole discourse has become. New Zea…

Er, no "most guns are illegal" is not at all true in Canada. Canada's gun laws are arguably looser than some US states. Plenty of "assault weapons" are non restricted rifles in Canada: https://tillsonburggunshop.com/Firearms-guns-Rifles-Shotgun-...

You just need a PAL to buy them. No background check at the time of sale, and no registration.

By comparison, here in California owning most of these guns would get you a felony punishable by years in prison.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#53

Post by ryanmarsh »

hippich wrote: post #33
ryanmarsh wrote: post #12

Controversial opinion from someone with extensive experience with assault weapon violence. GOOD The current "shelter in place" model of active shooter drills KILLS CHILDREN. In combat we had another name for "shelter in place"... "die in place". People must be taught to fight back or flee. They must because it is not instinctive. Most of us were raised in relatively peaceful societies and have a school yard/Hollywood…

What if you have a gun on you and no place to escape, do you attack right away, or wait for the shooter to come in and take him by surprise?

“Violence of action” is the military version of our beloved “Zero to One”. What you lack in skill you make up for in aggression.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#54

Post by penagwin »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #47
penagwin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay but we aren't training solders here, they took teachers, told them to kneel against the wall, and shot them in the back repeatedly without telling them what was about to happen. These are elementary schoolteachers - they're job is to educate (and half baby-sit) children. I'm not making any statement with training, I'm just saying the method here is inappropriate. EDIT: Plus how is this training? Are they expecte…

Okay but we aren't training solders here Maybe not but it sure looks like a battlefield[0]. 0: when you’re in the midst of a school shooting

Does it? According to the US Naval Postgraduate School, 56 people died in school shootings during 2018 (includes shooter). While this is terrible, I'm not sure this counts as a "battlefield"? According to the CDC, over 3x more children died from the flu (185)!

[0] https://www.chds.us/ssdb/number-killed-by-year/ [1] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.ht...

EDIT: Yes during a shooting your environment does resemble a battlefield. Shootings are not common however (see above statistic) so I feel resources may be more valuable elsewhere.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#55

Post by manfredo »

gpuhacker wrote: post #26

I'm from Europe. I mostly clicked on the link to find out what a shooter drill is. I'm baffled by the article and the comments in this thread. Having to have drills for school shootings is apparently considered a normal part of life in the US.

It's not. I've never had one of these and none of my co-workers have had one. Stuff like this is ridiculous to Americans, too.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#56

Post by b_t_s »

bootlooped wrote: post #25
ryanmarsh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately such training is for the limbic system, so pain and fear are required. The limbic system doesn't speak English and cannot reason.

I think it's a little absurd to think that shooting somebody with a pellet gun once is going to benefit them in an active shooter situation. With repeated training, maybe, but this is something that is never going to happen again.

The training is fairly reasonable for someone who has a reasonable expectation of engaging in combat. You need to drill reactions under duress until you stop thinking and just do what you've drilled instinctively. The problem is that that this is not a reasonable expectation for school teachers. They shouldn't and don't really have a statistically significant chance of seeing combat. They're also a population that strongly self selects for physical and mental inability to be effective in combat. For the majority of school teachers, trying to turn them into halfassed semi-trained soldiers is hopeless and cruel.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#57

Post by bootlooped »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #48
bootlooped wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a little absurd to think that shooting somebody with a pellet gun once is going to benefit them in an active shooter situation. With repeated training, maybe, but this is something that is never going to happen again.

That’s because you’re thinking. The limbic system doesn’t think.

I'm not arguing against the limbic system, I'm arguing against your assertions.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#58

Post by bootlooped »

b_t_s wrote: post #56
bootlooped wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a little absurd to think that shooting somebody with a pellet gun once is going to benefit them in an active shooter situation. With repeated training, maybe, but this is something that is never going to happen again.

The training is fairly reasonable for someone who has a reasonable expectation of engaging in combat. You need to drill reactions under duress until you stop thinking and just do what you've drilled instinctively. The problem is that that this is not a reasonable expectation for school teachers. They shouldn't and don't really have a statistically significant chance of seeing combat. They're also a population that st…

If you read the article it sounds like they just put them up against a wall and shot them in the back. It doesn't sound like training, it sounds more like punishment or hazing.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#59

Post by yarosv »

manfredo wrote: post #52
arcticbull wrote: post #28

You know, there are countries where this kind of thing doesn’t happen. Like, all of them. Know how many such drills we had in Canada? Zero. Probably because most guns are illegal so we don’t need them. That the solution isn’t gun control but instead making it illegal to shoot teachers unexpectedly with airsoft rifles is evidence of how insanely beyond the pail US gun policy and the whole discourse has become. New Zea…

Er, no "most guns are illegal" is not at all true in Canada. Canada's gun laws are arguably looser than some US states. Plenty of "assault weapons" are non restricted rifles in Canada: https://tillsonburggunshop.com/Firearms-guns-Rifles-Shotgun-... You just need a PAL to buy them. No background check at the time of sale, and no registration. By comparison, here in California owning most of these guns would get you a…

AFAIK If you have PAL license, RCMP runs background checks on you daily and revoke the license as soon as anything comes up.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#60

Post by stcredzero »

arcticbull wrote: post #44
stcredzero wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because most guns are illegal so we don’t need them. I saw a YouTube video from a few years back. A Canadian walked into a gun store co-located with a gas station and bought a semi auto rifle. I also recall a more recent video from one of my subscribed YouTubers firing a different semi-auto rifle. I don't think your logic really holds up to the facts.

It’s no YouTube video haha but Wikipedia has a pretty good description of the rules [1]. Everyone needs a license, long guns you’re free to own unregistered, everything else requires registration. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada

So if people can get a license and go and buy semi-auto long guns, which you say, thus corroborating what I recall seeing on YouTube, your logic doesn't really hold up.
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