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Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

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Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#131

Post by ineedasername »

dd36 wrote: post #96
mdorazio wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing you've said actually runs counter to the parent comment, though. Tesla can simultaneously be awful at logistics and still be the largest battery pack manufacturer because no one else really wanted to get into that game until recently. Also, the gross margins on the Model 3 have little to do with supply chain. They cut a lot of corners on build quality, interior fit and finish, etc. to get to that margin and t…

They cut corners but have the highest safety rating ever and the highest customer satisfaction? Is it reasonable to call something a cut corner when the end result is success by nearly every metric? Maybe that corner needn't exist? Scaling issues are unavoidable. So much nitpicking.

Cut corners on amenities, though only compared to their other models. Still a lot nicer than my car

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#132

Post by mikekchar »

I've often joked that the companies I work for should give their source code to their competitors. By the time the competitors figure it out, our company will be so far ahead :-)

It is interesting to speculate on the value of source code, though. For Tesla autopilot I'm more than willing to accept that there is some "secret sauce" of trade secrets in there that would help out a competitor, but usually I find that source code contains the most mundane stuff. Most professionals could write it nearly as fast as they could learn to work with the legacy systems if they knew what they were building. Instead it's the requirements that are gold. You figure out exactly what needs to be built in a great amount of detail, then you are at least as well off as having it big ball of messy logic.

Take note those that want to "steal" a competitor's project: just buy a copy of the executable and start figuring out exactly what it does ;-)

BTW, as a (on topic) side note, I once had an ex-colleague tell me that they copied all of the source code for every company they ever worked for -- just so they could look stuff up. It is not completely implausible that an ex-employee would copy the code to help their own performance without any involvement of their new employer.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#133

Post by zaroth »

ineedasername wrote: post #130
zaroth wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to feed the troll, but I would put Boeing a hell of a lot higher on that list than Tesla. I drive with AutoPilot every day. One thing is damn sure, you watch it vigilantly, and you can always, always take control by just turning wheel or tapping the brakes. Tesla tells me every single time I engage AutoPilot to keep my hands on the wheel and be ready to take control. A special place in hell for automation that yo…

Honest question, because I've never used an autopilot feature and have virtually no commute: if you have to watch it so vigilantly, what is the appeal or practical value?

It changes the way I drive. I don't focus on making minor adjustments to keep the vehicle centered in the lane. I don't need to predominantly look far down the lane to try to keep my peripheral vision maximized, and only take cursory glances around, like I would if I was actively steering. I don't worry about drifting out of the lane if I'm looking at something in the next lane over or in the rear-view for a moment.

I can scan more of my immediate surroundings and notice potential hazards which are not just directly in front of me much more easily.

I also find it's a lot less tiring to have the car dealing with the micro-adjustments in steering while I do the higher level planning.

I've said it before in other comments, but I honestly believe 20 years from now we might not have "sleep in your car while it takes you from point A to B" but we will look back and wonder how we managed to drive cars while constantly have to manually and meticulously center them in our lanes.

In fact I personally think it's quite analogous to how airplane autopilot actually functions (even if the general public perception of airplane autopilot does not match reality). It requires a pilot to constantly be monitoring the situation, and in fact it frees the pilot to be able to do necessary planning tasks, but at no point does the autopilot itself carry the actual responsibility of operating the vehicle.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#134

Post by fromthestart »

dd36 wrote: post #96
mdorazio wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing you've said actually runs counter to the parent comment, though. Tesla can simultaneously be awful at logistics and still be the largest battery pack manufacturer because no one else really wanted to get into that game until recently. Also, the gross margins on the Model 3 have little to do with supply chain. They cut a lot of corners on build quality, interior fit and finish, etc. to get to that margin and t…

They cut corners but have the highest safety rating ever and the highest customer satisfaction? Is it reasonable to call something a cut corner when the end result is success by nearly every metric? Maybe that corner needn't exist? Scaling issues are unavoidable. So much nitpicking.

Cutting corners during manufacturing is unrelated to safety rating (within reason).

The safety comes from robust design, not superior manufacturing practices. Neither are fit and finish related to safety.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#135

Post by m463 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #79
zaroth wrote: post #74

I get that it’s fun to beat up on Tesla. We love nothing more than the little guy winning and the winning guy brought low. Tis the great cycle of life. However, Tesla is the largest battery manufacturer in the world, and manufactures their batteries at significantly lower cost, higher performance, tighter tolerances, and with greater automation than anyone else in the world. It’s underestimating the difficulty of the…

Tesla is the largest battery manufacturer in the world, and manufactures their batteries at significantly lower cost, higher performance, tighter tolerances, and with greater automation than anyone else in the world. Panasonic manufactures the battery cells for Tesla and most of the market. Tesla assembles the cells into batteries. It would be accurate to say that Tesla is the largest manufacturer of car batteries, b…

Have you ever played a real time strategy game?

I see Tesla as a company that is basically putting all their resources into building their tech tree and their vehicle and parts factories, but cannot mine enough vespene gas to support the stores.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#136

Post by unityByFreedom »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #123
zaroth wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Model 3 cells are custom 2170 li-ion cells co-developed with Tesla and manufactured by Panasonic at Gigafactory 1. Tesla Gigafactory 1, which started in 2013, has already grown into the biggest battery factory in the world with an annual production capacity of over 20 GWh. [1] Actually they have exceeded 20 GWh currently and are pushing towards 35 GWh. [2] Panasonic is a 25% stakeholder in Gigafactory 1. The fact…

IP is not the same as manufacturing capability.

Exactly!

Tesla fans love to claim Autopilot is the best because, for example, Waymo's system is not available to purchase. How then can we be expected to believe a secret Tesla battery project is beating competition? There is no independent review and it is not in production.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#137

Post by m463 »

zepearl wrote: post #125
gamblor956 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is the largest battery manufacturer in the world, and manufactures their batteries at significantly lower cost, higher performance, tighter tolerances, and with greater automation than anyone else in the world. Panasonic manufactures the battery cells for Tesla and most of the market. Tesla assembles the cells into batteries. It would be accurate to say that Tesla is the largest manufacturer of car batteries, b…

> in one color Why is "black" and not "white" the standard color? Asking this because I think that black electric cars need in general more air-conditioning, therefore more energy, have therefore less range than white cars - based on the belief that it's easier to heat a car than to cool it => if the previous statements are correct, why is the high-energy-consumption-colour less expensive than the low-energy-consumpt…

I've secretly thought it was like the airlines taking away legroom and making you buy it back with an upgrade.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#138

Post by winningcontinue »

There's an emerging trend with tech companies to sue former individual employees for theft. It's a departure from the usual practice of suing other companies who acquire the employee and work on a competing product. The idea in silicon valley is to intimidate not the person being sued, but all future employees within your own company who might be thinking of doing the same thing. It entirely changes the calculus of moving on to another firm when you know you'd be dealing with litigation for years afterwords. It's a shame because Silicon Valley was built on former employees leaving their companies and starting their own firms to innovate.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#139

Post by m463 »

zaroth wrote: post #91
gamblor956 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is the largest battery manufacturer in the world, and manufactures their batteries at significantly lower cost, higher performance, tighter tolerances, and with greater automation than anyone else in the world. Panasonic manufactures the battery cells for Tesla and most of the market. Tesla assembles the cells into batteries. It would be accurate to say that Tesla is the largest manufacturer of car batteries, b…

The Model 3 cells are custom 2170 li-ion cells co-developed with Tesla and manufactured by Panasonic at Gigafactory 1. Tesla Gigafactory 1, which started in 2013, has already grown into the biggest battery factory in the world with an annual production capacity of over 20 GWh. [1] Actually they have exceeded 20 GWh currently and are pushing towards 35 GWh. [2] Panasonic is a 25% stakeholder in Gigafactory 1. The fact…

I think people should just watch the gigafactory video:

https://vimeo.com/176841432

there's a lot going on behind the scenes.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#140

Post by unityByFreedom »

zaroth wrote: post #133
ineedasername wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, because I've never used an autopilot feature and have virtually no commute: if you have to watch it so vigilantly, what is the appeal or practical value?

It changes the way I drive. I don't focus on making minor adjustments to keep the vehicle centered in the lane. I don't need to predominantly look far down the lane to try to keep my peripheral vision maximized, and only take cursory glances around, like I would if I was actively steering. I don't worry about drifting out of the lane if I'm looking at something in the next lane over or in the rear-view for a moment.…

You are risking your life and the lives of others in return for convenience.

> I don't focus on making minor adjustments to keep the vehicle centered in the lane.

Why is this a benefit? In this video [1] you only have two seconds to make a correction.

> I don't worry about drifting out of the lane

That is concerning given what we know about AP's behavior.

The behavior demonstrated here was new as of March 2018, later disappeared, and then reappeared again in an AP update in 2019 [2]. This issue was also demonstrated to appear at the location of a Model X crash that resulted in a fatality [3].

Then there are the two left-turning white tractor-trailer deaths in Florida, seemingly identical conditions on divided roads, spaced 3 years apart [4] [5].

You could say, "well I don't have conditions like those where I commute", but then, you don't know where the next screw-up will be.

EDIT: Here is another case, just happened two days ago [7], a Model X on autopilot unexpectedly veered right at highway speed, crashing into a truck.

Also note, there is no proof that AP is safer. NHTSA's "40% safer" claim was debunked when they were forced to release data as a result of a lawsuit [6].

> In fact I personally think it's quite analogous to how airplane autopilot actually functions

Airplane pilots have minutes to react to autopilot malfunctions. In a car you may have only 1 or 2 seconds.

[1] https://v.redd.it/n6iukmpsw3q01

[2] https://v.redd.it/p3xhls52w6n21

[3] https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/899i1w/my_mode...

[4] https://electrek.co/2016/07/01/understanding-fatal-tesla-acc...

[5] https://electrek.co/2019/03/01/tesla-driver-crash-truck-trai...

[6] https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26455/nhtsas-flawed-autopilot-...

[7] https://i.imgur.com/UZS1m6j.png

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