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Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#121

Post by erulabs »

cma wrote: post #84
penny45 wrote: post #38

I have a unpopular opinion here but I actually think Tesla is a tech company and has valuable information worth stealing.

I know software is a different area.. but such valuable secrets they started building cars in an open tent where the whole line could be videoed from the street...

This is sort of the exact opposite of patent trolls yeah? A patent troll sits on a patent doing next-to-nothing in order to hold on to their "extremely valuable" rights.

Tesla on the other-hand is executing on its patents so hard it doesn't even have time to try to protect them.

Perhaps their secret is _just doing stuff_, instead of, you know, _not_.

If thats the case, with my experience at San Francisco startups, there is a very real chance Zoox hasn't stolen the _valuable_ knowledge :P

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#122

Post by zaroth »

threeseed wrote: post #120
zaroth wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point isn’t that you can prove Tesla isn’t perfect. That goes without saying. The assertion was they are so far from perfect that in fact their IP isn’t even defensible in a court of law. So please don’t reply with more quips about how Tesla isn’t perfect. Why does their CEO mouthing off on Twitter, or attacking disgruntled employees, or dubious onsite health care, or pie-in-the-sky volume estimates, or market ma…

What are you talking about ? Nobody said that Tesla's IP was not valuable or that stealing it is okay.

Oh, that’s funny. All this time commenting on my phone, I just realized I posted my OP as a top-level comment and not as a reply to gamblor956 as intended.

> But given the shitshow that is Tesla's logistics , that's extremely unlikely, as Tesla's logistics processes simply aren't valuable IP. Tesla has displayed a chronic inability to manage their own supply chain, especially during the period the employees were at Tesla. If anything, Zoox used the information allegedly taken from Tesla as an example of what not to do logistically, and trade secrets law doesn't let you sue for that.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#123

Post by Dylan16807 »

zaroth wrote: post #91
gamblor956 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is the largest battery manufacturer in the world, and manufactures their batteries at significantly lower cost, higher performance, tighter tolerances, and with greater automation than anyone else in the world. Panasonic manufactures the battery cells for Tesla and most of the market. Tesla assembles the cells into batteries. It would be accurate to say that Tesla is the largest manufacturer of car batteries, b…

The Model 3 cells are custom 2170 li-ion cells co-developed with Tesla and manufactured by Panasonic at Gigafactory 1. Tesla Gigafactory 1, which started in 2013, has already grown into the biggest battery factory in the world with an annual production capacity of over 20 GWh. [1] Actually they have exceeded 20 GWh currently and are pushing towards 35 GWh. [2] Panasonic is a 25% stakeholder in Gigafactory 1. The fact…

IP is not the same as manufacturing capability.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#124

Post by 05 »

zaroth wrote: post #111
Tomte wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without a fair share of fuckups along the way My problem with Tesla is the same I have with Uber and AirBNB: it's not that they royally fuck up now and then, it's not even that they fuck up regularly. It's that their fuckups all betray their moral turpitude. They do not "fuck up" as in "security breach" or "bad bugs". They "fuck up" as in "lie, steal, cheat" and yes, arguably even "kill". I don't care which great a…

Not to feed the troll, but I would put Boeing a hell of a lot higher on that list than Tesla. I drive with AutoPilot every day. One thing is damn sure, you watch it vigilantly, and you can always, always take control by just turning wheel or tapping the brakes. Tesla tells me every single time I engage AutoPilot to keep my hands on the wheel and be ready to take control. A special place in hell for automation that yo…

In a worst case scenario Tesla can veer into a concrete lane divider and kill you in under a second. I don't think Boeing comes anywhere close to that timescale. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a person monitoring the vehicle to be able to react in time. Calling an L2 assist 'Autopilot' is just .. evil. Just like peddling shitty statistics that 'shows' AP is safer than manual driving (it really isn't).

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#125

Post by zepearl »

gamblor956 wrote: post #79
zaroth wrote: post #74

I get that it’s fun to beat up on Tesla. We love nothing more than the little guy winning and the winning guy brought low. Tis the great cycle of life. However, Tesla is the largest battery manufacturer in the world, and manufactures their batteries at significantly lower cost, higher performance, tighter tolerances, and with greater automation than anyone else in the world. It’s underestimating the difficulty of the…

Tesla is the largest battery manufacturer in the world, and manufactures their batteries at significantly lower cost, higher performance, tighter tolerances, and with greater automation than anyone else in the world. Panasonic manufactures the battery cells for Tesla and most of the market. Tesla assembles the cells into batteries. It would be accurate to say that Tesla is the largest manufacturer of car batteries, b…

> in one color

Why is "black" and not "white" the standard color?

Asking this because I think that black electric cars need in general more air-conditioning, therefore more energy, have therefore less range than white cars - based on the belief that it's easier to heat a car than to cool it => if the previous statements are correct, why is the high-energy-consumption-colour less expensive than the low-energy-consumption-colour?

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#126

Post by 11thEarlOfMar »

zepearl wrote: post #125
gamblor956 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is the largest battery manufacturer in the world, and manufactures their batteries at significantly lower cost, higher performance, tighter tolerances, and with greater automation than anyone else in the world. Panasonic manufactures the battery cells for Tesla and most of the market. Tesla assembles the cells into batteries. It would be accurate to say that Tesla is the largest manufacturer of car batteries, b…

> in one color Why is "black" and not "white" the standard color? Asking this because I think that black electric cars need in general more air-conditioning, therefore more energy, have therefore less range than white cars - based on the belief that it's easier to heat a car than to cool it => if the previous statements are correct, why is the high-energy-consumption-colour less expensive than the low-energy-consumpt…

I wouldn't put it past Elon to be because of Ford's famous edict when ramping the Model T: "Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Henry_Ford

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#127

Post by ineedasername »

zepearl wrote: post #125
gamblor956 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is the largest battery manufacturer in the world, and manufactures their batteries at significantly lower cost, higher performance, tighter tolerances, and with greater automation than anyone else in the world. Panasonic manufactures the battery cells for Tesla and most of the market. Tesla assembles the cells into batteries. It would be accurate to say that Tesla is the largest manufacturer of car batteries, b…

> in one color Why is "black" and not "white" the standard color? Asking this because I think that black electric cars need in general more air-conditioning, therefore more energy, have therefore less range than white cars - based on the belief that it's easier to heat a car than to cool it => if the previous statements are correct, why is the high-energy-consumption-colour less expensive than the low-energy-consumpt…

Maybe a nod to Ford on the model t? I think he famously said, "they can have it in any color they want, as long as it's black"

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#128

Post by ineedasername »

hartator wrote: post #113
outworlder wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be accurate to say that Tesla is the largest manufacturer of car batteries, Uh, duh? Last I checked, Tesla mostly sells cars. If they were the largest manufacturer of, say, cellphone batteries, THAT would have been surprising.

In term of overall capacity they mean.

They're the manufacturer of the largest batteries then. Not the largest manufacturer of batteries.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#129

Post by ineedasername »

airstrike wrote: post #78
zaroth wrote: post #74

I get that it’s fun to beat up on Tesla. We love nothing more than the little guy winning and the winning guy brought low. Tis the great cycle of life. However, Tesla is the largest battery manufacturer in the world, and manufactures their batteries at significantly lower cost, higher performance, tighter tolerances, and with greater automation than anyone else in the world. It’s underestimating the difficulty of the…

> I get that it’s fun to beat up on Tesla. We love nothing more than the little guy winning and the winning guy brought low. Huh.. and here I thought Tesla was the little guy in an industry defined by century-old behemoths. The truth is people like to shit on other people. As Taylor Swift famously said[0], "we don't live just in a celebrity takedown culture, we live in a takedown culture. People will find anything ab…

Well, shitting on Tesla for something like the fatal crashes where autopilot played a role does have a certain appeal. But at the same time, when they released their $35k vehicle I was still cheering them on too.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#130

Post by ineedasername »

zaroth wrote: post #111
Tomte wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without a fair share of fuckups along the way My problem with Tesla is the same I have with Uber and AirBNB: it's not that they royally fuck up now and then, it's not even that they fuck up regularly. It's that their fuckups all betray their moral turpitude. They do not "fuck up" as in "security breach" or "bad bugs". They "fuck up" as in "lie, steal, cheat" and yes, arguably even "kill". I don't care which great a…

Not to feed the troll, but I would put Boeing a hell of a lot higher on that list than Tesla. I drive with AutoPilot every day. One thing is damn sure, you watch it vigilantly, and you can always, always take control by just turning wheel or tapping the brakes. Tesla tells me every single time I engage AutoPilot to keep my hands on the wheel and be ready to take control. A special place in hell for automation that yo…

Honest question, because I've never used an autopilot feature and have virtually no commute: if you have to watch it so vigilantly, what is the appeal or practical value?
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