Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

np.reddit.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 351 posts

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#81

Post by ancientworldnow »

Tomte wrote: post #53
nathanaldensr wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unwilling? Don't buy a Tesla. Don't believe the hype. It's that simple. Granted, there is nothing stopping any ECU from killing you, but I'd trust a company like Honda way before Tesla.

I generally have zero interest in cars and don't follow the new models, but my impression from articles I've seen in the last years is that Volvo is actually a top contender for driver assistant systems (when you don't fool yourself into thinking you have an autopilot, but you really want sensible safety augmentation features). Is that impression accurate?

Waymo and Cadillac Super Cruise are generally considered the market leaders.

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#82

Post by ronaru »

Tomte wrote: post #53
nathanaldensr wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unwilling? Don't buy a Tesla. Don't believe the hype. It's that simple. Granted, there is nothing stopping any ECU from killing you, but I'd trust a company like Honda way before Tesla.

I generally have zero interest in cars and don't follow the new models, but my impression from articles I've seen in the last years is that Volvo is actually a top contender for driver assistant systems (when you don't fool yourself into thinking you have an autopilot, but you really want sensible safety augmentation features). Is that impression accurate?

GM cruise is the best based on this article, when you take "keeping driver engaged" as one of the criteria: https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/cadillac-...

Volvo's tech is last among the ones compared.

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#83

Post by BoorishBears »

Scoundreller wrote: post #74
dymk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of drivers per year use roads like this in California and Washington. They’re not very confusing for a human driver who’s paying attention.

I’m from Toronto, so I never underestimate drivers’ ability to do stupid like drive into streetcar-only tunnels past the end of the ashphalt, despite ample signage. 26 times. https://torontolife.com/city/queens-quay-streetcar-tunnel-dr...

How many hundreds of thousands of cars for those 26 to make that mistake?

Now imagine if every Toyota did this instead?

FSD is being touted as a "force multiplier" for safe driving, but it could end up being a force multiplier for deadly mistakes

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#84

Post by progfix »

systemspeed wrote: post #79

With demand for self-driving vehicles as high as it is, yet with the lag in advancement of computer vision, I think it's about time for a serious discussion about smart roads. I realize this isn't entirely relevant, but I can't be the only one thinking that we're missing the forest for the trees by trying to solve a transportation problem while simultaneously solving a vision problem.

Might as well put them on rails (Smart-Rails(TM)) and make a railway network for smart people. Transportation problems solved!

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#85

Post by Scoundreller »

sbierwagen wrote: post #57
Scoundreller wrote: post #20

That’s a very strange way to close a highway. Where are the blinkenlights? The words? The flashing arrows? The plastic jersey barriers? The buckets full of sand or water? The repainted lines directing you to the right? Can’t tell if this is temporary or long-term closure, but if it’s a multi month thing, I would expect more “Don’t you dare fork to the left” signalling. Not everyone is a local.

The section of road shown in the video is the I-5 express lane where it rejoins the regular freeway in North Seattle: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.7021836,-122.3299637,3a,71.1... Note how it's configured for southbound traffic in the street view image. It switches direction twice a day. Though you can't see it very well in the video, there is a crash arresting net after all the signs. https://www.google.com/maps/@…

I followed back the first link for the opposite direction of travel and didn’t find any signage before the swing-gates. You kinda truck along at 45mph+, sticking to the left to continue and with a small amount of notice time, you need to fork to the right.

I get that a local would know you are to always fork to the right, but someone unfamiliar or a machine could be confused by the initial half barriers, with only a 2 lane wide barrier after the demarcation point. Along with the oddly painted lanes.

But as I said in another post, I guess DOT would have the data on incidents (and hopefully act on it if there’s enough evidence in favour of more safeguards).

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#86

Post by Dumblydorr »

tbabb wrote: post #60

I have been yelling about this for a long time: Tesla is not going to be able to deliver full self-driving as promised. They don't have the hardware, for one (ranging is terrible; they need stereo cameras), and second, their software strategy seems to be a dead end. They need sensor fusion. The system needs to make maximum use of all the information available to it: Where is the road striping? Where are the other car…

Where is your evidence for these claims?

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#87

Post by yborg »

jstanley wrote: post #78
adrianN wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla crashes can injure people who don't drive a Tesla themselves.

So can Honda crashes.

Honda isn't experimenting on the public at large with unproven technology. One of their suppliers did, and ended up bankrupt as a result.

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#88

Post by quasse »

sschueller wrote: post #4

Eventually we need the NTSB to certify updates before they are pushed out over the air. Similar to what the FAA does. These OTA updates are not ok for large machinery and endagers not only the Tesla driver but all others on the road.

Yeah, it's a pretty crazy world where a game developer pushing an update to a game on Xbox live seems to have a harsher approval process to go through than an automaker pushing OTA updates that literally drive cars.

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#89

Post by txcwpalpha »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #80
lambda_lover wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great that you're willing to die for Tesla's profit, but you realize that autonomous vehicle-induced crashes affect everyone on the road? Even someone who doesn't consent to Tesla's TOS is still sharing the road with potentially dangerous software. Granted, individual drivers are awful enough that it probably doesn't make that huge a difference in danger. But would you still feel the way if a family member was k…

Everyone puts their lives in the hands of other machines daily, for instance brakes or automated elevators or medical devices; driving is an inherently dangerous activity. Computer or human won't change that. If we delay computers getting better than humans, we will just have status quo which is 30k or more road deaths yearly in the US.

Elevators and medical devices go through extensive testing and certification processes before they ever go near being put into service. And when they are updated, they again go through extensive testing and certification.

Teslas, on the other hand, apparently change their handling and driving profile overnight at the whim of the software engineers at Tesla, without even telling the drivers, and introducing bugs like the OP that are liable to get someone killed.

They are not the same, and comparing them only highlights the issues that Tesla has around their OTA update practice.

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#90

Post by Karunamon »

lisper wrote: post #76
0815test wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make a sudden turn? It's just lane following, so I really doubt that. And if your hands are on the wheel (as they should be) you'll very quickly become aware that the car is not staying in the lane as it's supposed to, and be in the best position to deliver the right input. Even looking at this video, the car didn't seem to "turn" suddenly and unexpectedly; if anything, it failed to physically take a turn even though…

> Make a sudden turn? It's just lane following You're begging the question [1]. The autopilot has full control authority over the steering wheel, so if it fails, nothing constrains it from making a sudden turn. If it is "just lane following" then it hasn't failed (yet). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Your hands. If you're just resting them on the wheel, that's not enough to prevent the attention monitor from working, it actually has to measure some physical resistance. If you resist the automatic inputs too much, the AP cuts out.

You can test this yourself in a tesla by engaging cruise control, then hitting a turn signal. This would normally initiate an automatic lane change - but keep your hands tightly on the wheel as if you wanted to stay in the lane you're in. The wheel will attempt to turn, fail as you're preventing it from turning - and the AP disables.

Post reply on HN