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To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#201

Post by dsfyu404ed »

adrianN wrote: post #188
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For nearly essential services (like child care, groceries, etc.) having a population that must go to one or a few particular establishment(s) out of geographical necessity is a recipe for rent seeking and other bad behavior. See also: food deserts

Where I grew up there were three Kindergartens and two supermarkets within walking distance. A short bus ride away were many more. How many options do you think are necessary to avoid the bad behavior that you fear?

Those sound like reasonable numbers. A number of options higher than 1 within walking distance is atypical in my experience.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#202

Post by beat »

philwelch wrote: post #160
dkural wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is an extreme precisely due to these social and emotional reasons. It's shocking to me how this article fails to mention even once that a lot of post WWII suburbanization was due to white flight. The article states: "Millions of soldiers had come home from World War II to overcrowded, run-down cities; their new families needed a place to live." "Overcrowded, run-down": who all of a sudden "overcrowded" these c…

It’s not entirely clear that racial animus was the primary motivating factor. Once civil rights legislation was passed to stop housing discrimination, for instance, there was also black flight, when middle-class black families also moved to the suburbs. It’s also not clear how one is supposed to reverse the effects of white flight; when middle-class whites move into a majority-nonwhite urban area, this is usually con…

I recommend reading Ta-Nehisi Coates on this subject. He's done terrific work on the history of redlining, and also talks about the impact of educated, successful families moving out of historically black neighborhoods.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#203

Post by ambicapter »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #22
ptero wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US car manufacturers are doubling down on large trucks and SUVs Manufacturers are building lots of SUVs because this is what people in the US prefer to buy. If manufacturers build tons of subcompacts instead they would have to drop prices and probably sell those subcompacts at a loss. If you wanted to sell more small cars instead you should convince consumers to buy them (e.g., via end user incentives), which would…

The deck is stacked, though. CUV's are considered trucks for the purposes of CAFE regulation. If they were considered the cars that they really are, they would be more fuel efficient, more expensive and manufacturers would be pushing small cars a lot harder to bring those averages down.

Serious question, are you saying trucks have more lenient CAFE regulations than cars?

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#204

Post by majewsky »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #168
ak217 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or live in an area (design and build areas) with good childcare options within walking distance. (Where "walking distance" is up to a mile away, not what Americans have gotten used to.) Modern car seats and LATCH anchors actually make it fairly easy to bring a child car seat with you. I agree with you though, all this stuff is bulky and adds up to a lot of baggage. It makes sense to have a car for your child. But tho…

For nearly essential services (like child care, groceries, etc.) having a population that must go to one or a few particular establishment(s) out of geographical necessity is a recipe for rent seeking and other bad behavior. See also: food deserts

There are at least 6 supermarkets within a mile of my apartment (in Dresden, not an incredibly dense city). That's plenty of competition in practice. And many other services like child care or health care are not an issue either since those are (mostly) paid for by the state.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#205

Post by tokai »

educationdata wrote: post #193
Xylakant wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are young without kids, it may not make much difference for you to ride a car, or take a bus, or a train, subway, etc. We have a toddler and a large dog. We own two electric cargo bikes and get around perfectly well without owning a car. There's car/truck sharing and rental if I really need to transport something large and heavy (> 100kg). > Just design a better one. I'd very much prefer if all that parking…

Maybe you live in SF? Not every city always has good weather. Cargo bikes are useless for most cities because of weather (rain, snow, winter cold, summer hot). It's useful for fun when the weather is great, but not as a main way of transportation.

How do you explain that cargo bikes are very popular with parents in Copenhagen? It's a wet windy city.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#206

Post by Xylakant »

educationdata wrote: post #193
Xylakant wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are young without kids, it may not make much difference for you to ride a car, or take a bus, or a train, subway, etc. We have a toddler and a large dog. We own two electric cargo bikes and get around perfectly well without owning a car. There's car/truck sharing and rental if I really need to transport something large and heavy (> 100kg). > Just design a better one. I'd very much prefer if all that parking…

Maybe you live in SF? Not every city always has good weather. Cargo bikes are useless for most cities because of weather (rain, snow, winter cold, summer hot). It's useful for fun when the weather is great, but not as a main way of transportation.

I live in Berlin. It’s been raining for a week and cold. Bikes both have a canopy, I have suitable clothing. Granted, it’s less comfortable than sitting in a car, but OTOH I don’t have to go jogging after returning from work. Worst case there’s still Bus and Subway.

Cities like Oslo and Copenhagen aren’t exactly known for good weather either, but have substantial policies around clearing bikeways from snow first, before all other roads. It’s more of an infrastructure problem than anything else: good cycling infrastructure begets cyclists. Walkable cities conjur pedestrians. Look at the Dutch, living in the land of eternal sunshine and mild temperatures.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#207

Post by throwawaymsft »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #195
dkural wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is an extreme precisely due to these social and emotional reasons. It's shocking to me how this article fails to mention even once that a lot of post WWII suburbanization was due to white flight. The article states: "Millions of soldiers had come home from World War II to overcrowded, run-down cities; their new families needed a place to live." "Overcrowded, run-down": who all of a sudden "overcrowded" these c…

> It's shocking to me how this article fails to mention even once that a lot of post WWII suburbanization was due to white flight. I've never really understood this explanation of suburbanization. Suppose you're a bunch of racist white folk wanting not to live near black folk. How do suburbs get you that any better than cities? What can you do to keep a black person from moving to your neighborhood in the suburbs tha…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_segregation_in_the_U...

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#208

Post by darkmighty »

hnal943 wrote: post #154
usaar333 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does the difficulty lie? I lived in SF fine with a toddler, taking public transit to local places.

1 kid who does not have his own schedule is relatively easy to manage. 5 kids who need to be in different places is more difficult.

I feel that with 5 kids special provisions and certain difficulty will be necessary no matter what. You would be moving around with all children a lot less in any case. But I don't see why it's impossible to go car free; specially considering some kids will be older than others (not 5 toddlers simultaneously).

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#209

Post by rhacker »

dkural wrote: post #89
betandr wrote: post #71

We really do have to radically re-think our cities but the biggest issues aren't going to be practical but emotional. In London parents drive their children around in 4x4s, knowing that their vehicle causes the pollution that is affecting their own children's health. I'm not sure how you even start to get around that but to some extent you will never persuade everybody to reduce their damaging behaviour. You need to…

The US is an extreme precisely due to these social and emotional reasons. It's shocking to me how this article fails to mention even once that a lot of post WWII suburbanization was due to white flight. The article states: "Millions of soldiers had come home from World War II to overcrowded, run-down cities; their new families needed a place to live." "Overcrowded, run-down": who all of a sudden "overcrowded" these c…

Also I'll tell you why sprawl exists: Sound. Whether that is a car driving by or a neighbor having a party. Some people just don't want to hear shit from you, ever. It is easier to justify making work far away from home at the expense of our kid's future air quality when in one case you hear chirping birds all day, in another you hear BUMP BUMP BUMP every 2 minutes. Sound is the number one cause of stress and people don't understand that - it's actually invisible and I wish it was taken into account more than anything on this planet.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#210

Post by mstade »

Tepix wrote: post #2

Not exactly rocket science. Many cities around the world have figured it out already. To me it seems that the US went to the other extreme and is only slowly turning around. I remember reading "Das neue Universum"² in the early 80s where they proposed large skyscrapers connected by tubes. No cars in sight. Oh and don't miss "Das Neue Universum Volume 84 (1967)": http://klausbuergle.de/buergle_verkehr1.htm - Click on…

> I remember reading "Das neue Universum"² in the early 80s where they proposed large skyscrapers connected by tubes. No cars in sight.

This reminds me of the pedway scheme they tried to do in London, even going so far as to require buildings in the city to prepare for these bridge walkways between buildings. Here's a nice little documentary about it: https://vimeo.com/80787092

For anyone interested in architecture visiting the city of London, I highly recommend a visit to the barbican as well.

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