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To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#181

Post by gtaylor »

electricslpnsld wrote: post #121
educationdata wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Car is not just the "culture", car serves our need. If you are young without kids, it may not make much difference for you to ride a car, or take a bus, or a train, subway, etc. But if you have a family, it makes a huge pain without your own vehicle. If the city of future requires families to abandon their own vehicle, it is not the correct city of future. Just design a better one.

I know families in NYC, Seattle, San Francisco, Oakland, Portland, and even Pittsburgh that do great car free! It is 100% doable, even in the US.

It's a bit more difficult in Oakland if the places you are trying to get to aren't by a BART stop. The AC transit buses are slow, dirty, sometimes dangerous, and don't have 100% coverage.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#182

Post by crispyambulance »

kortilla wrote: post #75
crispyambulance wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe there is a nefarious scheme in play. I don't either but I do see it a sad lack of imagination and resignation to out-of-date mythologies about individualism. There's no defensible reason why work-home-school-retail structures rural places can't nucleate closer together into walkable "main street" towns. Much of the design of fly-over states is dictated by developers. It starts when a farmer who want…

>Much of the design of fly-over states is dictated by developers. Unnecessary bullshit. The entire part of the South Bay and nearly all of Los Angeles suffers from the same driving dependency. It has nothing to do with ignorant armchair analysis of how “the flyover states” work.

Sorry, I didn't intend to be flippant about "fly-over" states.

But, yeah, the farmland-developer-mcmansion-exburban-dystopia transition is something I've seen too many times in too many places.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#183

Post by Xylakant »

educationdata wrote: post #98
betandr wrote: post #71

We really do have to radically re-think our cities but the biggest issues aren't going to be practical but emotional. In London parents drive their children around in 4x4s, knowing that their vehicle causes the pollution that is affecting their own children's health. I'm not sure how you even start to get around that but to some extent you will never persuade everybody to reduce their damaging behaviour. You need to…

No. Car is not just the "culture", car serves our need. If you are young without kids, it may not make much difference for you to ride a car, or take a bus, or a train, subway, etc. But if you have a family, it makes a huge pain without your own vehicle. If the city of future requires families to abandon their own vehicle, it is not the correct city of future. Just design a better one.

> If you are young without kids, it may not make much difference for you to ride a car, or take a bus, or a train, subway, etc.

We have a toddler and a large dog. We own two electric cargo bikes and get around perfectly well without owning a car. There's car/truck sharing and rental if I really need to transport something large and heavy (> 100kg).

> Just design a better one.

I'd very much prefer if all that parking space and all that space used by 4-lane roads would be used to make the city more dense and walkable. If I can walk to the kindergarden or school, there's no need to even take a bike, if close enough a kid can even walk on their own. The only things that makes such a thing infeasible are cars.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#185

Post by moitoi »

jimmaswell wrote: post #79

I'd hate walking everywhere, having to get tiny amounts of groceries every day instead of stocking up every 2 weeks, etc. Walking/standing all day at conventions feels like death and a half a mile trip to the fast food places around here turns from 2 minutes to 10 minutes if I walk, which I tried when someone from Europe said that's walking distance. Walking such distances just makes me constantly wish I was driving…

It's not real, is it?

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#186

Post by icebraining »

sandworm101 wrote: post #155
naravara wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids is actually a tough case, especially when they're infants. You actually need to haul around a bunch of stuff to take a kid out and transit is rarely design around the needs of parents. Strollers are a pain to get into a bus or train, and often worsen crowding because they're so big. And it's just not practical to have to get car seats in and out of car-shares or cabs. Even in places with well considered transit…

I'd extend this from "kids" to "dependents". Anyone trying to move a disabled person, or simply an elderly relative, will opt for private transportation. For me it is a question of reliability. If the train is cancelled, the bus is late, or the power goes out, the private car allows a degree of privacy and safety unmatched by public transport. You think changing a kids diaper on the train is bad, try it with a 150lb…

That's one reason to gently push the others into public transport and bicycles; leaves more room for those who really need a car.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#187

Post by educationdata »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #162
educationdata wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Car is not just the "culture", car serves our need. If you are young without kids, it may not make much difference for you to ride a car, or take a bus, or a train, subway, etc. But if you have a family, it makes a huge pain without your own vehicle. If the city of future requires families to abandon their own vehicle, it is not the correct city of future. Just design a better one.

Some things with kids are easier on the bus than on the car. For instance, you can just roll a stroller onto it, rather than dealing with the car seat dance which is so particularly annoying in the winter. And once they're past the stroller phase, the kids love not being strapped down in a 5 point harness and having a parent that can interact with them rather than concentrating on driving. And the train is cool. But…

Yes. We can certainly survive without a car, but that life will be different. Uber & taxis are difficult when you have small kids, because it is much easier to have carseats installed in own car. Also it is much much easier for a family to go out for picnic, riding bicycles, swimming, or doing all sorts of outdoor activities.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#188

Post by adrianN »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #168
ak217 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or live in an area (design and build areas) with good childcare options within walking distance. (Where "walking distance" is up to a mile away, not what Americans have gotten used to.) Modern car seats and LATCH anchors actually make it fairly easy to bring a child car seat with you. I agree with you though, all this stuff is bulky and adds up to a lot of baggage. It makes sense to have a car for your child. But tho…

For nearly essential services (like child care, groceries, etc.) having a population that must go to one or a few particular establishment(s) out of geographical necessity is a recipe for rent seeking and other bad behavior. See also: food deserts

Where I grew up there were three Kindergartens and two supermarkets within walking distance. A short bus ride away were many more. How many options do you think are necessary to avoid the bad behavior that you fear?

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#189

Post by selectodude »

danielecook wrote: post #112
betandr wrote: post #71

We really do have to radically re-think our cities but the biggest issues aren't going to be practical but emotional. In London parents drive their children around in 4x4s, knowing that their vehicle causes the pollution that is affecting their own children's health. I'm not sure how you even start to get around that but to some extent you will never persuade everybody to reduce their damaging behaviour. You need to…

Having recently moved to London I am a bit shocked at how poor the cycling infrastructure is. Granted, the city was never exactly planned out, but it seems to me it wouldn’t be hard to add dedicated bike paths given the fair amount of green space. Consider richmond Park as a prime location where dedicated bike-only lanes would be a great improvement. Instead you must bike along side diesel fumes on the roads that sho…

It's all the diesel cars. They pump out a ton of particulate matter that you don't get from petrol.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#190

Post by hycaria »

hnal943 wrote: post #154
usaar333 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does the difficulty lie? I lived in SF fine with a toddler, taking public transit to local places.

1 kid who does not have his own schedule is relatively easy to manage. 5 kids who need to be in different places is more difficult.

Maybe try to have kids do stuff that are compatible with the schedule then, and not the other way round.
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