Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#111

Post by crimsonalucard » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 11:23 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #67

crimsonalucard wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No none of that overhead was needed. He was giving them free money. That's what this system is more akin too.

Please go back and re-read what I wrote, paying particular attention to "might have needed under different circumstances but happened not to need that day".

Oh, I didn't notice that my bad. So like the hospital is prepared to do open heart surgery on me, I should pay for that just in case I need it when I go to the hospital for a common cold. Makes 100% sense.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#112

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 11:28 PM UTC

dabbledash wrote: post #110

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2017, 91.2% of people have coverage, 67.2% through their employer. 71% of Americans answered they are satisfied with their employer-provided coverage. Anecdotally, I'm satisfied with my coverage. https://www.ahip.org/majority-of-americans-satisfied-with-th... https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-26...

I have “excellent” coverage in the US and am now pregnant with my second baby. My first pregnancy and birth ended up costing thousands of dollars. During pregnancy, I received an endless stream of unpredictable lab test bills (why does this test cost $13 and this one costs $273?). After the birth itself, every provider who saw me in the hospital sent me a separate bill, on top of which I was billed for the room itsel…

What did you really end up paying though?

On average Americans pay $3,000 for childbirth.

If our system was like every other developed country, we wouldn't have the medical developments we have today.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#113

Post by mnm1 » Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 12:01 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #12

tapland wrote: post #5

Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. In Sweden we pay less per capita than americans do (from taxes) and my total _maximum_ healthcare costs for _all_ treatments, medications, surgury etc, that in the US would be paid by your employer or yourself are: $125/year max for all visits and procedures [1] + $250/year max for all p…

>>Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. Americans don't actually have an objection to paying more for healthcare. What they do have an objection to is paying for other people's healthcare. America is a deeply individualistic society, and the idea of one's tax dollars being spent to benefit others lies at the root of most peo…

I agree. Unfortunately, Americans are not all multi millionaires or billionaires and almost all Americans are too stupid to realize that they won't be able to afford their own healthcare without a "socialized" government run system. Such stupidity is a hallmark trait of such an individualistic, selfish society in which people cannot think of others or or collective action. Other traits are high levels of depression, anxiety, and drug abuse due to isolation and the complete lack of community. But hey, at least you can watch your neighbor die slowly of cancer he can't afford to get treatment for from afar. That seems to be something Americans enjoy.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#114

Post by tapland » Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 12:06 AM UTC

stevekemp wrote: post #92

badpun wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make American-level software engineer salary in Sweden, your EFFECTIVE (not marginal, effective) tax rate is a freaking 55% - at least that’s the number given to me by a recruiter whi tried to bring me there. Also, you pay 25% VAT. I’m sorry, but that’s a bit outrageous.

True, but those taxes pay for things that money can't buy; for example job security, open spaces, parks, social services such as cheap child-care, paternity/maternity leave, etc, etc. You can't just compare salary. The lifestyle is different. You'll get 4-5 weeks of (paid) holiday, you'll live in a modern country where the taxes are high, but the streets are clean, people are looked after, and you'll have effective h…

And not to forget: College

There's a reason I was comparing healthcare costs per capita, because then we don't have to argue about things like total tax rate, because it doesn't matter. US taxes wouldn't need to increase.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#115

Post by dragonwriter » Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 12:16 AM UTC

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #106

cimmanom wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think maybe you mean to qualify that as “most American software engineers?” Or maybe even “most Americans in white collar jobs”, although that’s not a universal, and the premiums and quality of care in many of those plans is absolute crap. Heck, even as a software engineer, my medical insurance is mediocre and a high-deductible plan costs more in premiums ON TOP OF what my employer pays than I’d spend out of pocket…

In 2017, 91.2% of people have coverage, 67.2% through their employer. 71% of Americans answered they are satisfied with their employer-provided coverage. Anecdotally, I'm satisfied with my coverage. https://www.ahip.org/majority-of-americans-satisfied-with-th... https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-26...

> 91.2% of people have coverage, 67.2% through their employer. 71% of Americans answered they are satisfied with their employer-provided coverage.

So, almost 4 percentage points more Americans are satisfied with their employer-provided healthcare than actually have it?

Or do you mean 71% of the 67.2% not 71% of Americans?

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#116

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x » Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 1:16 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #115

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2017, 91.2% of people have coverage, 67.2% through their employer. 71% of Americans answered they are satisfied with their employer-provided coverage. Anecdotally, I'm satisfied with my coverage. https://www.ahip.org/majority-of-americans-satisfied-with-th... https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-26...

> 91.2% of people have coverage, 67.2% through their employer. 71% of Americans answered they are satisfied with their employer-provided coverage. So, almost 4 percentage points more Americans are satisfied with their employer-provided healthcare than actually have it? Or do you mean 71% of the 67.2% not 71% of Americans?

That survey was for employee provided coverage, so it would be 71% of the 67.2% Americans who get their coverage via employers. I couldn't find satisfaction rates for government provided coverage.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#117

Post by acconrad » Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 2:40 AM UTC

Regardless of where you stand on this issue politically, I think what upsets me the most is that we have the means to solve this problem. And hunger. The most basic needs for all humans can be solved: we have enough food to feed everyone. We have enough money and doctors to treat everyone without going destitute.

We have more than enough.

We choose to not to.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#118

Post by lisper » Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 4:06 AM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #108

lisper wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. There are three additional items that U.S. hospitals have to pay for that non-US hospitals don't (or that they have to pay a lot more for): 1. Malpractice insurance 2. The overhead incurred by insurance companies and 3. The cost of serving uninsured patients who can't pay out of pocket. The third one is huge. US emergency rooms by law must treat serious conditions -- but only serious conditions -- whether…

So currently if you get sick, you "win" the sick lottery and get to pay for other people's illness as a result. What's a fair rate for a cut that just needs skin glue and some antibiotics? $500? or is it more like $2600? Because it sounds like he's paying somewhere around a 5x multiplier just because 1) he got a cut and 2) he can pay it. At some point that won't be sustainable, and emergency rooms will shut down from…

It’s already not sustainable.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#119

Post by nosianu » Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 6:32 AM UTC

cam_l wrote: post #109

nosianu wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2nd reply, for some reason HN refuses to accept my edit of the 1st one where I appended this, although it still lets me open the "Edit" option even when I reload. As for your second point, I have a similar argument to make as in my first reply about your fist point about "saving". Unless you think that suddenly, within the last fifty years somehow humans especially in the US were born radically different than any hum…

You have touched on what i think is the critical underlying difference between Left and Right thinking. Systemic responsibility vs personal responsibility. The thing is, they are not mutually exclusive. They are more like two sides of the same coin. And while those two sides may not be exactly equal, most arguments between the sides seem to centre on the disjunct between these two ways of thinking. If you can acknowl…

That is not a difference of politics but of what you are looking at. If the subject is public health policy you look at statistics and the big picture. If you look at one particular patient you don't. Same here: If the subject is the fate of one person and one person only (meaning that person isn't a "Fake" stand-in example and the subject really is the big picture) then you can and should talk about that person's behavior. If the subject is the big picture that's useless because you can't change people and you should make policies that work and don't demand a huge genetic change. Same in crime: Individuals are and should be held accountable, but public policy should not and does not rely on people to change but sets the framework.

So, no contradiction necessary. The exact same person can have both views - depending on what the subject is. However, lots of discussions and comments focus on individuals (even if no concrete one is chosen) when the subject is the big picture.

I think so-called conservatives and progressives would find that they are not actually all that far apart at all if they really looked at individual cases. It must be true individual cases - people tend to extrapolate and still think about the population (coming up with things like "slippery slope" arguments, or giving small criminals huge sentences to "send a signal").

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#120

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 6:33 AM UTC

morningmoon wrote: post #94

nosianu wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the level of the economy there is no "saving" (ignoring small things like leaving resources under ground for later instead of digging them up now). What is produced now is consumed now, especially services. Governments may keep strategic reserves e.g. of oil or some basic foods but that's outside the economy, that's (obviously) not added to by "saving for retirement" and all the other kinds of "saving" that indivi…

Yeah yeah the deflationary death spiral that’s never actually happened. Saving is literally keeping money to use it at a later date. So how will you retire without saving? Are you planning on working until you’re dead?

[deleted]