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Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

theatlantic.com

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Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#91

Post by nosianu »

morningmoon wrote: post #76

- 65% of Americans don't save, despite most having the ability to do so. 1 in 3 have less than $5,000 saved for retirement! It's a massive cultural problem. [1] - Most Americans live unhealthy lifestyles that contribute to $1.5 trillion in estimated healthcare costs from preventable disease. 1 in 3 Americans have pre-diabetes and 2 in 3 Americans are overweight. 1 in 3 Americans are obese. Again, a cultural problem.…

2nd reply, for some reason HN refuses to accept my edit of the 1st one where I appended this, although it still lets me open the "Edit" option even when I reload.

As for your second point, I have a similar argument to make as in my first reply about your fist point about "saving". Unless you think that suddenly, within the last fifty years somehow humans especially in the US were born radically different than any human or pre-human generation in the million years before them, it's kind of strange to blame it on the individuals. I would say humans have stayed pretty much the same. So if the outcome suddenly is bad, why do look for the reasons in the individuals who did not change? There must be something outside people that changed, and I would say that is where one should look for a solution. Not in changing the people ("You buy wrong! You eat wrong!"), which won't work.

The Guardian has just written an article along those lines: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/mar/16/snack-attacks-...

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#92

Post by stevekemp »

badpun wrote: post #57
tapland wrote: post #5

Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. In Sweden we pay less per capita than americans do (from taxes) and my total _maximum_ healthcare costs for _all_ treatments, medications, surgury etc, that in the US would be paid by your employer or yourself are: $125/year max for all visits and procedures [1] + $250/year max for all p…

If you make American-level software engineer salary in Sweden, your EFFECTIVE (not marginal, effective) tax rate is a freaking 55% - at least that’s the number given to me by a recruiter whi tried to bring me there. Also, you pay 25% VAT. I’m sorry, but that’s a bit outrageous.

True, but those taxes pay for things that money can't buy; for example job security, open spaces, parks, social services such as cheap child-care, paternity/maternity leave, etc, etc.

You can't just compare salary. The lifestyle is different. You'll get 4-5 weeks of (paid) holiday, you'll live in a modern country where the taxes are high, but the streets are clean, people are looked after, and you'll have effective health-care.

(Disclaimer: I'm in Finland, not Sweden, but things are similar here.)

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#93

Post by Retra »

User23 wrote: post #54
MiddleEndian wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, I support single payer healthcare (or at least a dramatic restructuring that decouples pricing from employment) specifically because of individualism. Right now, you need to work at a corporation to get collective bargaining for healthcare prices. This presents a huge disadvantage to people wanting to be contractors, self-employed artists, people wanting to start small businesses, people who only want to…

I support a variant of single payer healthcare too: you pay for your own healthcare out of pocket. All this requires is that wages be high enough and health care costs be controlled. If this sounds impossible, you should consider that it was how our system worked in the USA in living memory.

You then deny that health insurance is a reasonable way to plan for illness?

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#94

Post by morningmoon »

nosianu wrote: post #90
morningmoon wrote: post #76

- 65% of Americans don't save, despite most having the ability to do so. 1 in 3 have less than $5,000 saved for retirement! It's a massive cultural problem. [1] - Most Americans live unhealthy lifestyles that contribute to $1.5 trillion in estimated healthcare costs from preventable disease. 1 in 3 Americans have pre-diabetes and 2 in 3 Americans are overweight. 1 in 3 Americans are obese. Again, a cultural problem.…

On the level of the economy there is no "saving" (ignoring small things like leaving resources under ground for later instead of digging them up now). What is produced now is consumed now, especially services. Governments may keep strategic reserves e.g. of oil or some basic foods but that's outside the economy, that's (obviously) not added to by "saving for retirement" and all the other kinds of "saving" that indivi…

Yeah yeah the deflationary death spiral that’s never actually happened.

Saving is literally keeping money to use it at a later date. So how will you retire without saving? Are you planning on working until you’re dead?

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#95

Post by i_am_proteus »

tapland wrote: post #47
i_am_proteus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider: - The US is much fatter, on average - Medicare's standards for reimbursement are often not based on cost effectivenes - The US government will pay around $150K/QALY vs. e.g. the UK's c. $40K/QALY. More expensive healthcare per capita is what I'd expect given those attributes and "single payer is the only solution" does not seem to be logically linked to the problem and facts.

You are paying much more than anyone else[0]. I really doubt that's because of you being the 17th fattest country by BMI[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_body_mass...

Please note that the data you link does not address obesity and health costs simultaneously! Obesity is indeed a contributing factor, around 5% of total.[ξ] And from your references, the US has substantially more obeses and overweights per capita than the countries against which it is compared for health costs

[ξ]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449869/

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#96

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

thefounder wrote: post #87
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America's healthcare system is what furthers the world's healthcare through research and development. Because it is for profit, the quality and advances are superior. Other countries that reap the benefits of drugs that America create while only paying generic prices when Americans have to pay for the inflated prices that pay for those expensive drug trials.

How much R&D did pharma boy do?

That's your counter? One instance of abuse?

I'll take that if it comes with all the breakthroughs the American healthcare system has developed.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#97

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

superpermutat0r wrote: post #70
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spending is due to research and development, not because more people are sick.

Not really, it's Medicaid and Medicare. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expenditures_in_the_United_S...

That's the government's spending on healthcare insurance. Which furthers my point, those insurance companies are paying the cost of development that gets tacked on to drug prices and other healthcare services.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#98

Post by cimmanom »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #77
mseidl wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German software engineer that used to work in the USA, do I pay more taxes in Germany, yes. But, I don't have to worry about going bankrupt from medical issues. In Seattle where I used to live daycare is 30,000$ a year per kid. In Germany it's at most like 200-300 euros a month. Plus you get kindergeld too(200 euros per kid). We don't go into 10s of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for schoo…

Most Americans have good healthcare through their employer. The premiums are reasonable, and the quality is great. Only if you're self employed or part time do you pay out of pocket, something you need to factor in when you make life decisions.

I think maybe you mean to qualify that as “most American software engineers?” Or maybe even “most Americans in white collar jobs”, although that’s not a universal, and the premiums and quality of care in many of those plans is absolute crap. Heck, even as a software engineer, my medical insurance is mediocre and a high-deductible plan costs more in premiums ON TOP OF what my employer pays than I’d spend out of pocket in a year without a major medical emergency.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#99

Post by Waterluvian »

parthdesai wrote: post #43
Waterluvian wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sliced a banana peel of skin off my finger on glass by accident. 3 hours of various stages of waiting rooms after triage and I had been x-rayed and sewn up and sent home. Cost me $8 in parking a $2 in Tim Hortons coffee. I felt an immense level of pride in the taxes I pay (43% income tax before deductions) when it clicked that anyone who walked in would have gotten this same service.

3 hour of wait time is bearable but i'm really sorry that you had to spend $2 on that shitty Timmies coffee.

I'll be honest, it was actually a hot chocolate and I love their hot chocolate when it's scalding hot. I sip it really slowly in a weird "aeration" move that mixes with air.

It reminds me warmly of 6am hockey practices when I was a kid.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#100

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