I'm an EU citizen who enters Europe on a US passport. Will I be forced to pony up money for this?
Why would you enter the EU on a US passport if you’re an EU citizen?
US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021
221–230 of 269 posts
Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021
#222This is for an electronic travel authorization, which the US, Australia and Canada already require of all visitors. It's simple and takes minutes online, hardly a 'visa.'
Did the title or article change since this was posted? As of writing:
- The title of the article is "US citizens will need to register to visit parts of Europe starting in 2021"
- The article includes the quote "The [US State Department] official added that the "ETIAS authorization is not a visa.""
Where did the "visa" in the HN title come from?
Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
I stand corrected on the internal us terminology. But the dictionary definition of citizenship refers to country. Do you have one example of a visa regime which differentiates between different locations within a country?
Here's are a couple articles about China's special visa practices for people from the Jammu and Kashmir region of India in 2009. [1] [2] I wasn't aware of this contemporaneously, so I don't know quite what it was about, but it sounds like if you were from Jammu and Kashmir, your visa would be issued as a paper visa, and if you were from the rest of India, it would be issued as a stamp. A quick look at sample US passp…
I was pretty sure China would be the example that would show up. Not a great example to emulate.
The term state in that context means country, which is why citizen is a synonym for national. in the Oxford English Dictionary, that is the first definition, and secondarily (and more historically than anything) it refers to citizens of a town. It might be in use locally, but I have never heard anyone use the term citizen in that way other than poetically, and I have spent time in a number of English speaking regions.
Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
It might be a valid point to some extent, but there is an imporant aspect here: we are talking about _different_ requirements. Even though those four EU countries are not in the Schengen Area, their citizens can freely travel (without visa or any authorisation) anywhere in the EU. They just go through the border control. In other words, the requirements concerning the free travel are already met. Now, in the context…
It's not an irrelevant treaty. It is specifically the part of the EU agreement which regulates visas and travel in respect to non-EU countries (yes, I understand others have been allowed into it by reciprocal agreement, nonetheless it an EU directive). If a country can't yet be part of it or refuses to be part of it, why should they be treated as if they were? Free travel within the EU is the part that appears to be…
I don't follow you. Which treaty are you referring to? Are you talking about the EU directive regarding the visa policy? If so, how is this relevant to the negotiations/decision-making concerning the EU-US agreements?
EU directives are domestic legal acts. I guess you can think of them as US federal laws. Let me put it this way: let's say, just hypothetically, US would have some federal law regulating the movement (perhaps imposing some barriers) between the US states. Why and how exactly would this be relevant to the US-EU visa/travel agreements? What matters is that 27 countries agree to negotiate together, so the European Commission negotiates with the US on behalf of the EU, including those five countries. For the purpose of the agreement, it does not matter what legal instrument (EU directive, 27 bilateral treaties, whatever) is used to implement that agreement.
Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
>there should be no visa at all And why is that?
We need people to travel and get different perspectives more and not less. I too often see arguments in political discourse that something could never work, yet I've been to many countries where these things are normal. For example, I want all US citizens to experience a great pic transportation system so that we can elevate the discussion in the US about it. Likewise I want everyone to experience a Japanese city, so…
> In fact I wish we could make it mandatory for everyone to have to live a year in a foreign country.
I get where you're coming from and agree that would be great for America but I really don't want mass migration of Americans to Europe. The number we have is enough. The culture is poisonous and already destroying America (see homelessness, healthcare, government shutdowns, racial conflicts, political divisions), we don't need it spreading here any more than it already is.
If Americans showed any inclination of integrating this might be a different story but I'm surrounded by expats who despite residing in European countries for years haven't learned the language, put their kids in English-speaking schools and otherwise gone about their American lifestyles in European countries without any apparent consideration for the locals (and often go on to complain about how "unwelcoming" the countries they live in are).
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Americans, I don't think they're horrible people and the country certainly has huge achievements. However, the idea of mass (albeit temporary) migration to/from Europe to give "different perspectives" terrifies me, as it feels like it'll largely be in a single direction, at least when it comes to culture.
Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just a few points: - Tit-for-tat response is a geopolitical reality. Regardless whether you think it is pre-school model or not, this is what pretty much all countries do, as it is a perfectly rational way (and sometimes even the only way) to defend your interests. By rational I am talking about the Game Theory kind of rational. :) - You suggest to look at each EU country individually (just also keep in mind that the…
Really great animated illustration of tit-for-tat vs. other strategies: https://ncase.me/trust/
> Really great animated illustration of tit-for-tat vs. other strategies: https://ncase.me/trust/
Thanks for sharing! Probably the best explanation of classic game theory that I have seen.
Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021
#227The article mixes two seaparate issues: - EU is introducing ETIAS, an electronic authorisation system which is pretty much modeled after the US ESTA system (used by visa-free nationals). It will apply to all countries which currently enjoy the visa-free regime with the EU and that includes USA. So, technically it is not a visa, but your details will be pre-checked and it will cost €7 (compared to $14 for US ESTA). Ir…
Right now, US has a policy that allows no more than 7% of permanent residents from any country. Right now, every member state of EU can have no more than 7%. However, If they can present EU as an unified federation (just like USA), US should impose 7% rule on the EU as a whole.
Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like this is a rental car/insurance issue, i.e. private corporation, not a free movement issue. Whether it's just or not is a different question, which would derail the thread.
It's not unlike renting a car in San Diego and not being allowed to take it into Mexico. The risk of theft is higher than the wish to deal with and the reality of successful prosecution/recovery is incredibly low. Rent a car in Germany and you are specifically told what countries you can't visit without higher rates or lower class of car.
I’ve rented a car in Montreal on several occasions in early 2000s and my contract explicitly forbid me to enter the Bronx and Queens boroughs of New York City.
Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
What you are missing is that you seem to think that because the US is organised in a particular fashion, that is the only valid organisational structure. The EU is organised differently, and it and its member countries are perfectly within their rights to organise themselves in this fashion. If you find that difficult, just rephrase "the EU has" into "the EU member states have". So: the EU member states have decided…
What you seem to be missing is that the EU is an organization that legally owes its existence to a series of treaties between 28 sovereign nations and the United States is one, single, sovereign nation under International law. This system of nations is really a post-Napoleon phenomenon and wasn’t solidified until after World War 2. If it had gone a different direction, maybe every American, German, Brazilian and Aust…
You are still missing the point that these are fairly arbitrary distinctions. The states of the US are actually quite independent, with much of the authority of the federal government being taken from the 'commerce clause', which is ... er ... "interesting" (and actually not that dissimilar to the EU deriving from the single market and customs union).
Case in point: I have an EU driver's license. It is valid in the EU. When in the US, driver's licenses are per-state, though I am allowed to drive in a different state for a while, I have to get the current state's license when I move my residence. California has border checks for agricultural goods. etc. etc.
Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? The EU and its member states are free to organize themselves any way they see fit, and states can decide on collective action, see NATO article 5.
The US is also free to organize its policies as it sees fit. If the EU really doesn't want the US to treat its member states as diplomatically separate entities, due to treaties the US was not party to, then it should stop holding them out as separate entities and present an unambiguously unified front. As a practical matter, no country could subject citizens of different EU member states to different visa policies i…
> The US is also free to organize its policies as it sees fit.
Yep. And then you get disagreements and tit-for-tat. Just don't claim that the US's policies are in some way more legitimate.
> then it should stop holding
Says who? On whose authority? If the US wants its citizens to be treated uniformly, then it shouldn't give out per-state driver's licenses.