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US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

cnn.com

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Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#161

Post by jkaplowitz »

Scoundreller wrote: post #137
jkaplowitz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries with free healthcare systems like you describe don't officially give that benefit to visitors from the US or other countries, with certain common exceptions like travel within the EU/EEA and people with some form of long-term residence permission like a work permit. They will of course allow anyone to access the system. And often they don't charge because they don't want to deal with the paperwork. But…

But how did he pay? Did the bill assume he could pay like a local?

I never asked. Since all of his accounts are denominated in USD and based in the US, I assume he filled out and returned a credit card authorization form (and just ate his card's 3% foreign transaction fee).

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#162

Post by Scoundreller »

virtualwhys wrote: post #128
jkaplowitz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to the nature of the Schengen area and the greater independence of an EU member state compared to a US state, there's no real way to track whether a US citizen overstays more in some parts of the Schengen area than others. And I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that at least some of the EU member states in question are on track to join Schengen before the time ETIAS launches in 2021.

> there's no real way to track whether a US citizen overstays more in some parts of the Schengen area than others. Doesn't matter, it's 90 days applied to the entire Schengen area, regardless of which member state(s) you visited.

But (for now), there isn’t always a passport-control between Schengen and non-Schengen zones.

E.g. your time in Monaco, Andorra or Ireland.

Dunno if your time in Ireland is kept track of or not if you fly to/from it.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#163

Post by Havoc »

rmind wrote: post #10

The article mixes two seaparate issues: - EU is introducing ETIAS, an electronic authorisation system which is pretty much modeled after the US ESTA system (used by visa-free nationals). It will apply to all countries which currently enjoy the visa-free regime with the EU and that includes USA. So, technically it is not a visa, but your details will be pre-checked and it will cost €7 (compared to $14 for US ESTA). Ir…

> There have been calls within the EU to respond tit for tat

Require everyone from Texas to obtain a Visa. Maybe then the message will sink in

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#164

Post by benj111 »

erentz wrote: post #139
TomVDB wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace “passport” by “driving license” and things are almost equivalent: a piece of paper that pins you down a particular plot of land.

You’re not getting the point. The USA is a single country. All of its citizens are to be treated equally. And all of its foreign affairs are handled by the one federal government. The EU is a very complicated collection of many individual countries that all have their own citizens, and all represent themselves individually in foreign affairs except where it’s convenient to represent themselves as a group. Free moveme…

"The USA is a single country. All of its citizens are to be treated equally"

Yes because the US has decided they should be, the EU has decided they want their citizens treating the same also.

I understand your point that you can't differentiate Americans by passport, unlike Europeans, but that's a subtly different argument.

"Turkey is a dictatorship and came damn close to being in the EU" If by damn close you mean informal talks. Theres a list of things nations need to sign up to, be become EU members. Not being a dictatorship is probably in there somewhere.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#165

Post by ru999gol »

Symbiote wrote: post #22
ru999gol wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that hard to understand? Why should we treat US citizens visiting the EU better than the US is treating EU citizens entering the US?

If there's no other benefit, then we should continue to treat US citizens better than they treat us as good hosts, to maintain the moral high ground on the issue, and to demonstrate our ideals about unrestricted travel.

That just seems like an incredibly naive approach to foreign policy.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#166

Post by guitarbill »

geggam wrote: post #156
rmind wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a few points: - Tit-for-tat response is a geopolitical reality. Regardless whether you think it is pre-school model or not, this is what pretty much all countries do, as it is a perfectly rational way (and sometimes even the only way) to defend your interests. By rational I am talking about the Game Theory kind of rational. :) - You suggest to look at each EU country individually (just also keep in mind that the…

Rent a car. EU countries dont even treat each other equally. Stones in glass houses ? Territorial restrictions The vehicle selection can restrict travel to certain countries. For a description of these restrictions on admission, the countries are divided into three zones. Zone 1: Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Gibraltar, Great Britain, Ireland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco,…

Sounds like this is a rental car/insurance issue, i.e. private corporation, not a free movement issue. Whether it's just or not is a different question, which would derail the thread.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#167

Post by erentz »

Scoundreller wrote: post #149
erentz wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case there should be no such thing as a Croatian passport or a Polish passport. Or Croatian citizenship (etc.). Feels like there’s a fair bit of eating cake and having it too going on here.

Oh great. Tons of 2nd generation Canadians and Americans are Polish and Croat citizens by lineage. It’ll probably be illegal for them to apply for an ETIAS, and it’ll take a year to get a PL or HR passport.

Huh? I think you’re confused. A US citizen who happens to be of Croatian or Polish decent is still just a US citizen.

If the EU does build a database of US citizens’ lineage and then starts denying US citizens of Croatian descent entry not only would that be hugely ironic it would also cause a pretty emphatic response from the US.

There is only one US country and only one US citizen.

The argument people are making comparing EU countries to US states is absurd.

They might as well be saying “Well what if the EU decided not to allow visa free entry to New Zealand citizens from the city of Auckland. Huzzah! Therefore US should treat all EU countries the same!”

See how absurd that is? Because a US state has just as much control over immigration and foreign policy or national defense etc etc as does a New Zealand city, which is to say none.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#168

Post by sratner »

erentz wrote: post #142
toast0 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use state of birth, if it's encoded on the passports, and if not, require a visa from everyone until state of birth is encoded on the passports. As a point of order, US states do have citizens. As a US citizen, I'm also a citizen of the state in which I reside.

So someone born in Morocco who moved to France and became a French citizen should be denied visa free entry to the US because their citizenship by your standard is actually Moroccan.

It's what US already does for immigrant visas (referred to as "country of chargeability"), so there is precedent.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#169

Post by Scoundreller »

kartan wrote: post #12
rmind wrote: post #10

The article mixes two seaparate issues: - EU is introducing ETIAS, an electronic authorisation system which is pretty much modeled after the US ESTA system (used by visa-free nationals). It will apply to all countries which currently enjoy the visa-free regime with the EU and that includes USA. So, technically it is not a visa, but your details will be pre-checked and it will cost €7 (compared to $14 for US ESTA). Ir…

Exactly that. From https://www.eulisa.europa.eu/Activities/Large-Scale-It-Syste... " ETIAS is a pre-travel authorisation system for visa exempt travellers." Video explaining the system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=orrBJiXAcSU

Exactly. An American can still drive to Europe without an ETIAS, so it’s not a visa.

Makes sense, don’t it?

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#170

Post by falcor84 »

zaroth wrote: post #26
rmind wrote: post #10

The article mixes two seaparate issues: - EU is introducing ETIAS, an electronic authorisation system which is pretty much modeled after the US ESTA system (used by visa-free nationals). It will apply to all countries which currently enjoy the visa-free regime with the EU and that includes USA. So, technically it is not a visa, but your details will be pre-checked and it will cost €7 (compared to $14 for US ESTA). Ir…

Tit for tat is a great model in pre-school. The more mature response is to investigate the underlying issues. Instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling “We are EU, you must treat us all the same” there could be some acknowledgement that travelers from those countries are disproportionately overstayers and there is a justifiable reason to need to more closely track them. If US travelers are overstaying…

> Policy should be set based on the reality on the ground and not merely policital fantasy.

I fail to understand what you mean here; aren't these two things the same? The way I see it, politics is exactly the practice of coming up with fantasies that larger groups are willing to accept as reality.

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