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US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

cnn.com

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Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#201

Post by guitarbill »

benj111 wrote: post #37
ru999gol wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that hard to understand? Why should we treat US citizens visiting the EU better than the US is treating EU citizens entering the US?

Why not? the US has the death penalty, I wouldn't support the death penalty for an American in Europe. I'm not entitled to free medical care in the US, I would have no problem with an American using my health service, if needed. If it is just a tit for tat, that just makes everyone worse off. The supposed stated aims (security) seem suspect between 2 blocs that really should be able to work together.

Every time I've bought travel insurance, it comes in two flavours: One that doesn't cover the USA, and one that does.

Unsurprisingly, the one that provides cover in the US is significantly more expensive.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#202

Post by ameister14 »

benj111 wrote: post #190
ameister14 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but if that occurs the state is now no longer an individual and can never leave. States in the US are not individually parties to any agreements with other countries, so the treaty would have no additional members. The same thing applies if belgium decides to conquer a few more miles of land. You can leave the EU, no state leaves the USA.

If a state wanted to leave the US it could. The US doesn't have an article 50, but if Texas declared independence, the rest of the US could choose to respect that. Of course the US could decide to send in the troops, but the EU could send the troops to the UK. There might be technical legal differences between the two examples, but at this level its more might is right and the winner writes the rules. Example The Ukr…

No, a state can't leave legally. There was a theoretical framework that would allow it in the Constitution, but that was decided 150 years ago. The EU has an explicit legal avenue for leaving.

Also, no; the EU cannot send troops to the UK. Individual member states could do so, but not the EU. That may change in the future but at the moment it is how it is.

I don't understand the Ukraine reference; in context it seems like you are saying they tried to leave the EU and the EU sent in troops, but that didn't happen. Could you elaborate?

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#203

Post by rmind »

sgc wrote: post #144
rmind wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland is in the Schengen Area. Cyprus is divided since Turkish invasion, so it is somewhat a special case. Other countries joined the EU relatively recently. However, all four countries are legally obliged to join the Schengen Area, they just have to fulfil certain requirements. Without going into all details.. don't you think it kind of makes sense? If you want to join an area without border controls, then for exam…

But doesn't it seem hypocritical to push for equal treatment externally when those requirements have not been met? EU processes like this one can take decades to iron out.

It might be a valid point to some extent, but there is an imporant aspect here: we are talking about _different_ requirements.

Even though those four EU countries are not in the Schengen Area, their citizens can freely travel (without visa or any authorisation) anywhere in the EU. They just go through the border control. In other words, the requirements concerning the free travel are already met. Now, in the context of EU-US travel, do other (internal EU) requirements matter? I would argue that they don't.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#204

Post by sgc »

toast0 wrote: post #197
sgc wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are a resident, not citizen of your state. Citizenship as defined means being a member of a country. Passport and visa regimes are based on that.

Passport and Visa regimes are often based on citizenship or place of birth in addition to passport origin. Also, the fourteenth amendment says "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

I stand corrected on the internal us terminology. But the dictionary definition of citizenship refers to country. Do you have one example of a visa regime which differentiates between different locations within a country?

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#206

Post by fred256 »

dontbenebby wrote: post #102

It sounds like this e-visa is good for 3 years... does that mean hypothetically I could go digital nomad in Schengen Area as a US citizen?

It probably just means that for the next 3 years you don't have to re-apply every time you visit, but doesn't change anything about how long you're allowed to stay.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#207

Post by mpweiher »

SllX wrote: post #184
r00fus wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an analogy as Hawaii is one of the 50 United States. The EU Schengen zone is similar to the US as there is free travel between countries within the zone.

I know but it doesn’t work. Every single EU member state is a sovereign nation with its own foreign policy, military, standing to sign treaties, seat in the UN General Assembly, international recognition beyond the UN, and a couple of them even have permanent seats in the Security Council. And most, but not all are parties to the Schengan Area, and most, but not all, are members of NATO. The ones that are not landloc…

What you are missing is that you seem to think that because the US is organised in a particular fashion, that is the only valid organisational structure. The EU is organised differently, and it and its member countries are perfectly within their rights to organise themselves in this fashion.

If you find that difficult, just rephrase "the EU has" into "the EU member states have". So: the EU member states have decided on collective visa measures.

Collective response is something states do. See NATO Article 5.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#208

Post by benj111 »

ameister14 wrote: post #202
benj111 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a state wanted to leave the US it could. The US doesn't have an article 50, but if Texas declared independence, the rest of the US could choose to respect that. Of course the US could decide to send in the troops, but the EU could send the troops to the UK. There might be technical legal differences between the two examples, but at this level its more might is right and the winner writes the rules. Example The Ukr…

No, a state can't leave legally. There was a theoretical framework that would allow it in the Constitution, but that was decided 150 years ago. The EU has an explicit legal avenue for leaving. Also, no; the EU cannot send troops to the UK. Individual member states could do so, but not the EU. That may change in the future but at the moment it is how it is. I don't understand the Ukraine reference; in context it seems…

The Ukraine reference was referring to Russia annexing part of it, and the rest of the world doing nothing.

As I said there might be technical legal differences, but practically speaking at this level they can be ignored. If Texas wants independence, it isn't going to be put off by US laws. The US will loudly point to those laws yes, but whether it does anything will be independent of those laws.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#209

Post by Scoundreller »

logifail wrote: post #198
Scoundreller wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Huh? I think you’re confused. A US citizen who happens to be of Croatian or Polish decent is still just a US citizen. Many European countries automatically make people their citizens by lineage, not place of birth. Sometimes with little restriction by the paternal line. Being born in the US to Croatian parents will make you a citizen of both countries, no application required. Croatia may not know about it, but you…

> Many European countries automatically make people their citizens by lineage, not place of birth. Automatically ? Source?

The general concept is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis

Croatia: http://eudo-citizenship.eu/NationalDB/docs/CRO%20Law%20on%20...

Section 4: "A child acquires Croatian citizenship by origin: [various criteria about who your parents are]" There's no "may" or "can".

Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Descent...

"A person born of a parent with German citizenship at the time of the child's birth is a German citizen. Place of birth is not a factor in citizenship determination based on parentage."

Italy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_nationality_law#Attrib...

"Italian citizenship is granted by birth through the paternal line, with no limit on the number of generations, or through the maternal line for individuals born after 1 January 1948."

France: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_nationality_law#French_...

"French citizenship by birth abroad to at least one French citizen The child (legitimate or natural) is French if at least one parent is French."

Some countries (like France) require the birth to be registered, while others do not.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#210

Post by obrisintor »

That is a shame. Whenever I would take a long trip that went geographically over the EU, I would usually buy a ticket that had a 8+ hour layover somewhere in the EU and tour around for a little while. I guess I will now have to find another country to take a layover in. Maybe I will start flying British Airway if the UK lets me visit visa free.
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