US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#191

Post by sly010 » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 6:03 PM UTC

erentz wrote: post #139

TomVDB wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace “passport” by “driving license” and things are almost equivalent: a piece of paper that pins you down a particular plot of land.

You’re not getting the point. The USA is a single country. All of its citizens are to be treated equally. And all of its foreign affairs are handled by the one federal government. The EU is a very complicated collection of many individual countries that all have their own citizens, and all represent themselves individually in foreign affairs except where it’s convenient to represent themselves as a group. Free moveme…

Hungry?

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#192

Post by mk89 » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 6:07 PM UTC

rmind wrote: post #60

zaroth wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tit for tat is a great model in pre-school. The more mature response is to investigate the underlying issues. Instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling “We are EU, you must treat us all the same” there could be some acknowledgement that travelers from those countries are disproportionately overstayers and there is a justifiable reason to need to more closely track them. If US travelers are overstaying…

Just a few points: - Tit-for-tat response is a geopolitical reality. Regardless whether you think it is pre-school model or not, this is what pretty much all countries do, as it is a perfectly rational way (and sometimes even the only way) to defend your interests. By rational I am talking about the Game Theory kind of rational. :) - You suggest to look at each EU country individually (just also keep in mind that the…

> You suggest to look at each EU country individually (just also keep in mind that there are no border controls beetween the EU countries in the Schengen Zone). In such case, should we also look at each US state individually (because they are also not uniform, e.g. some are much poorer than the others)?

It's not the same. When you are born in California, your citizenship is "US". When you are born in Bulgaria, your citizenship is Bulgarian, not European. If that happens, of course it'll be more difficult to prevent people from a single country to move freely.

This is one of the biggest differences between United States and EU. USA is one country, Europe is not.

> US uses its weight to exert its influence pretty much all over the world. Well, so does the EU in this case, whether the US likes it or not.

I am European, however this comment makes me laugh. USA can literally crash EU in a couple of weeks, if they want to. It doesn't mean I need to live with fear, for God's sake, but just saying.

This answer from the EU is just a show off, utterly useless, and obviously being two months before the elections it tells me something - we want to protect our borders from the USA? Finally we won't have anymore terrorists coming from USA. Thanks EU, I feel safer now. :)

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#193

Post by mk89 » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

Completely useless response from our incompetent and overpaid European politicians two months before the elections. The world goes in one direction, and what do they do? They really think to increase security by applying these measures against countries like USA, Canada or Mexico... ? I must be living in a parallel universe.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#194

Post by toast0 » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

virtualwhys wrote: post #138

toast0 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use state of birth, if it's encoded on the passports, and if not, require a visa from everyone until state of birth is encoded on the passports. As a point of order, US states do have citizens. As a US citizen, I'm also a citizen of the state in which I reside.

You're a resident of the state in which you reside. I have never heard anyone say, for example, "I am a citizen of the state of Massachusetts". That you can move to another state and claim residency there implies what residency is, transient, whereas citizenship is permanent.

The fourteenth amendment states "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#195

Post by pkaye » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

rmind wrote: post #60

zaroth wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tit for tat is a great model in pre-school. The more mature response is to investigate the underlying issues. Instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling “We are EU, you must treat us all the same” there could be some acknowledgement that travelers from those countries are disproportionately overstayers and there is a justifiable reason to need to more closely track them. If US travelers are overstaying…

Just a few points: - Tit-for-tat response is a geopolitical reality. Regardless whether you think it is pre-school model or not, this is what pretty much all countries do, as it is a perfectly rational way (and sometimes even the only way) to defend your interests. By rational I am talking about the Game Theory kind of rational. :) - You suggest to look at each EU country individually (just also keep in mind that the…

> As a matter of fact, the overstay rate of these countries is lower than some of those which are already in the Visa Waiver Program (VWP)

With VWP there is hardly any filtering of potential overstays so the rates might be higher than those through the visa process.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#196

Post by guitarbill » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #22

ru999gol wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that hard to understand? Why should we treat US citizens visiting the EU better than the US is treating EU citizens entering the US?

If there's no other benefit, then we should continue to treat US citizens better than they treat us as good hosts, to maintain the moral high ground on the issue, and to demonstrate our ideals about unrestricted travel.

For bad behaviour, you don't help it by there being no repercussions or consequences. Maybe a lesson will be learned, and that will allow a more mature approach next time. It works for children.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#197

Post by toast0 » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

sgc wrote: post #143

toast0 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use state of birth, if it's encoded on the passports, and if not, require a visa from everyone until state of birth is encoded on the passports. As a point of order, US states do have citizens. As a US citizen, I'm also a citizen of the state in which I reside.

You are a resident, not citizen of your state. Citizenship as defined means being a member of a country. Passport and visa regimes are based on that.

Passport and Visa regimes are often based on citizenship or place of birth in addition to passport origin.

Also, the fourteenth amendment says "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#198

Post by logifail » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #187

erentz wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? I think you’re confused. A US citizen who happens to be of Croatian or Polish decent is still just a US citizen. If the EU does build a database of US citizens’ lineage and then starts denying US citizens of Croatian descent entry not only would that be hugely ironic it would also cause a pretty emphatic response from the US. There is only one US country and only one US citizen. The argument people are making co…

> Huh? I think you’re confused. A US citizen who happens to be of Croatian or Polish decent is still just a US citizen. Many European countries automatically make people their citizens by lineage, not place of birth. Sometimes with little restriction by the paternal line. Being born in the US to Croatian parents will make you a citizen of both countries, no application required. Croatia may not know about it, but you…

> Many European countries automatically make people their citizens by lineage, not place of birth.

Automatically?

Source?

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#199

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

jkaplowitz wrote: post #161

Scoundreller wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how did he pay? Did the bill assume he could pay like a local?

I never asked. Since all of his accounts are denominated in USD and based in the US, I assume he filled out and returned a credit card authorization form (and just ate his card's 3% foreign transaction fee).

[deleted]

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#200

Post by Scoundreller » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

jkaplowitz wrote: post #161

Scoundreller wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how did he pay? Did the bill assume he could pay like a local?

I never asked. Since all of his accounts are denominated in USD and based in the US, I assume he filled out and returned a credit card authorization form (and just ate his card's 3% foreign transaction fee).

Interesting. I know non-EU people end up in messes when they get a speeding ticket for their rental car and can't exactly IBAN/SEPA money over in 5 minutes or less.

I went with the next best option: Ignore it, but it was more of a "warning ticket" that they could investigate further and issue a real ticket if I didn't pay.