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A Vegan No More

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Re: A Vegan No More

#181

Post by halostatue »

makmanalp wrote: post #83
abeppu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For bonus points, keep track of hidden meat , like gelatin in 'yogurt' and marshmallows, isinglass in your wine, or bonechar in your sugar, or lard, oyster sauce, fish sauce or chicken broth snuck into otherwise vegetarian dishes.

I appreciate the sentiment that you should know what you eat, but don't understand this mentality that I observe many vegetarian / vegans have. Oh no, gelatin snuck in your food, you're not a proper vegan / vegetarian anymore! Beat yourself up about it! It oddly reminds me of those tiny silly inconsequential rules that you're supposed to pay attention in some religions. Like no alcohol. What does that have anything t…

People who don't eat meat regularly lose an enzyme they need to properly digest meat. When I find that I've accidentally consumed something with chicken broth in it, I am physically ill during digestion. Therefore, I ask whether a soup or a risotto is made with a meat broth, because it's not worth me getting ill over.

Chicken broth is used in too many places as "instant flavour" where water would do just as well, or a mushroom broth. There's no reason for it, and the chefs I spoke with in Italy were horrified by the use of chicken broth in making a risotto.

I choose not to have anything with gelatin in it, because it's a useless filler, especially to yogurt. If you really need to thicken yogurt because you're reducing the milk's fat content, use agar or pectin.

(I am ova-lacto vegetarian, although I reduce my lacto because I'm mildly milk intolerant, more's the pity.)

Re: A Vegan No More

#182

Post by elblanco »

gxti wrote: post #71

This is a perfect example of why one must use the utmost caution in allowing a choice to become part of one's identity. When the time comes for that belief to be challenged you will fight not because it is true, but because it is perceived as an attack on the self. You will ignore reason and fight to save that piece of yourself from annihilation like a feral animal cornered by a predator. You are not a vegan. You are…

I've added this to my personal collection of awesome quotes.

Re: A Vegan No More

#183

Post by algorias »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #64
dasil003 wrote: post #13

I'm all for radicalism since radicals are the main force questioning conventional wisdom. But the size of the vegan movement is totally out of proportion to its veracity. Take the whole "meat is murder" slogan. It's ridiculous from the outset and completely ignores our existence within the earth's ecosystem. I mean industrialized animal farming is fairly horrific, but the way to stop that is by advocating and paying…

I agree with most of what you have to say, but I want to make a note about this: Opting out of meat entirely does nothing to change the industry, because most people will always eat some meat if they can afford it. I think opting out does a few things. It puts pressure on restaurants to offer alternatives to meat, so we're not all forced to eat it because it's the only healthy option. It pushes our culture to give pe…

>And given that's my motivation, I'm pretty careful about how I engage people. I don't shame people, I don't push them. I honestly don't give a shit what they decide. I just like having the options all out there.

A very important point. I'm a vegetarian myself, and the subject comes up from time to time. I always end up advocating deliberate, thought-through decisions over any particular choice of diet.

Re: A Vegan No More

#184

Post by Egregore »

kadavy wrote: post #3

I've never been a vegetarian, but I used to eat very little meat. The one mineral I rarely hear about when talking about a vegetarian or vegan diet is Zinc. It is nearly impossible to get enough Zinc without eating animal products. You can either eat nearly 3 pounds of peas, or little more than .5 ounces of canned oysters to get enough Zinc in your diet. Being low on Zinc weakens your immune system, and your libido,…

You can get a lot of Zinc from plant based sources:

http://food.vegtalk.org/minerals/spices-fats-fruits-vegetabl...

Re: A Vegan No More

#185

Post by brc »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #64
dasil003 wrote: post #13

I'm all for radicalism since radicals are the main force questioning conventional wisdom. But the size of the vegan movement is totally out of proportion to its veracity. Take the whole "meat is murder" slogan. It's ridiculous from the outset and completely ignores our existence within the earth's ecosystem. I mean industrialized animal farming is fairly horrific, but the way to stop that is by advocating and paying…

I agree with most of what you have to say, but I want to make a note about this: Opting out of meat entirely does nothing to change the industry, because most people will always eat some meat if they can afford it. I think opting out does a few things. It puts pressure on restaurants to offer alternatives to meat, so we're not all forced to eat it because it's the only healthy option. It pushes our culture to give pe…

I'm a large consumer of meat and I completely understand your point of view.

I personally realise a lot of the consumption is habit based and has no basis of defense if questioned. I prefer to eat locally grown produce and (attempt) to grow my own vegetables. I do think a lot about reducing consumption both from a calorie and cost point of view - I'd rather have two good steaks than 7 bad ones. I'd like to take this further but being in a family does tend to restrict the ability to dictate the diet, especially if you don't produce the majority of the meals.

I have no intention of ever giving up meat products but there is a lot in what you say that people should honestly appraise what they are eating and ask if it is because it is what they really feel like eating, or what they should be eating, or if it is just because it is 7 oclock and time to consume some dead animal. I'm going to re-appraise this and see if I can approach it from a different angle.

Re: A Vegan No More

#186

Post by Evgeny »

fleitz wrote: post #130
thret wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All animals are in one way or another a food source for other animals. It is in no way evil if an animal suffers unless that suffering is intentionally caused by a human. Our sin is in the mass production and mis-treatment of livestock while they are alive, not in the actual killing or eating. Not eating mass-produced chicken or wearing leather makes sense, refusing free-range eggs or seafood does not. Not that there…

You're inferring the feelings of an animal to make your judgement. No one actually knows the living preferences of a chicken or a cow. Since you posit that huamn beings can infer the feelings of animals I posit that animals prefer to be factory farmed than spend what existence the animal has being constantly chased by predators. Therefore wearing leather and eating mass-produced chicken makes perfect sense and is in…

No one actually knows the living preferences of a chicken or a cow.

But does anyone know, without any doubt, the living preferences of a potato or an apple tree?

Re: A Vegan No More

#187

Post by lwhi »

kadavy wrote: post #3

I've never been a vegetarian, but I used to eat very little meat. The one mineral I rarely hear about when talking about a vegetarian or vegan diet is Zinc. It is nearly impossible to get enough Zinc without eating animal products. You can either eat nearly 3 pounds of peas, or little more than .5 ounces of canned oysters to get enough Zinc in your diet. Being low on Zinc weakens your immune system, and your libido,…

Pumpkin seeds have a load of zinc in. A handful on salad does the job.

Re: A Vegan No More

#188

Post by Evgeny »

Egregore wrote: post #160
huhtenberg wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait till they discover Plant and Fungus Suffering. That should make things plenty more interesting :)

Plants and fungus don't have nervous system, so there are no scientifically demonstrable ways how they will use ability to suffer. Animals can move and suffering helps them find better conditions, for example if there is to hot an animal will seek another place, if something causes suffering animals will try to avoid it, plants on the other hand can't move and can't avoid suffering so plants don't need to feel suffer…

I think if plants can't move, that puts them into even worse circumstances compared to animals.

At least animals can try to get away from the danger, plants do not even have means for that. I feel more sorry for the plants now. Way to discriminate the whole kingdom of living creatures just because they did not happen to evolve the nervous system humans can understand. How can we say they do not suffer in ways we can not grasp at our current development level?

Oh, and also - some plants can move. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_plant_movement

Re: A Vegan No More

#189

Post by lwhi »

I think this a case of the 'tail wagging the dog'.

The author decided she wanted to be vegan for (possibly) superficial reasons.

She then found she couldn't be vegan for health reasons, but rather than take a step back and hold on to some of the principles she claimed to have (and become an ovo-lacto vegetarian; and see if that worked) .. cognitive dissonance came into play and she shifted her entire world-view around to suit her new choice of meat-based diet.

I imagine it must have been difficult to make the choice - but there's something about the subsequent rationalisation (and justification) that makes me feel uncomfortable.

Re: A Vegan No More

#190

Post by Evgeny »

tomstuart wrote: post #104
dasil003 wrote: post #13

I'm all for radicalism since radicals are the main force questioning conventional wisdom. But the size of the vegan movement is totally out of proportion to its veracity. Take the whole "meat is murder" slogan. It's ridiculous from the outset and completely ignores our existence within the earth's ecosystem. I mean industrialized animal farming is fairly horrific, but the way to stop that is by advocating and paying…

I don't eat animals or animal products because I personally don't want to. What's wrong with that?

I think there is nothing wrong with that as long as you feel healthy and are healthy. I think the point of the submitted post was that the author did not eat animal products and became very unhealty. That's pretty much it ...
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