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Recruit Is Japan’s Top Contender for Global Internet Domination

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Re: Recruit Is Japan’s Top Contender for Global Internet Domination

#101

Post by fiblye »

threatofrain wrote: post #96
fiblye wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really not that programmers are more “valued” and everyone who isn’t paying them enough money to buy a new house yearly isn’t properly appreciating them. It’s that one country can afford to pay more, and it’s partly enabled by a massive wealth disparity. Being surprised is strange. It’s like being surprised that people get paid less in Poland and that companies won’t pay as much for a programmer there. Nobody ha…

For the same reason that China is trouncing Taiwan in tech hiring, you need to beat your competitors. What's reasonable to give to someone else to make them do what you want depends on what your competitors do. Framing it as "think of what another Japanese person would be making" is all wrong. We can say the exact same thing about Taiwan, and we surely wouldn't say the way for Taiwan to move forward is to tell candid…

Taiwan is also an absolutely tiny economy compared to China. That money has to come from somewhere. In the case of many countries, it means paying most workers peanuts while paying someone else 10x as much.

Some on HN are okay with massive wealth disparity and think it’s great for some international programmer to be valued far more than any local just because they worked at a company like Facebook. Some countries, like Taiwan and Japan, aren’t on that train.

Re: Recruit Is Japan’s Top Contender for Global Internet Domination

#102

Post by ascar »

Ultramanoid wrote: post #95
ascar wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you live and work in Edogawa City, or Katsushika, or Nerima I only used the data I found in the referenced article. I used the "budget" option that is "located outiside central Tokyo and about a 30- to 45-min train ride to a major Tokyo station." Edogawa city is even closer than that estimation (about 25minutes to Toyko station and less than 20 minutes to a major station). So if the numbers in the article are co…

I'm having a little trouble following and replying the comments on multiple levels. Been a reader of HN for a couple of years, but a contributing user for only a few days. > This results in the funny situation that for me eating out at cheap shops in Japan is maybe 20-30% more expensive than cooking for myself, while in Germany eating out at cheap shops is 2 to 4 times more expensive than cooking for myself. In the e…

> going to shop at supermarkets and food stalls as late as possible

Yes I do the same multiple days per week. It works surprisingly well here though. Rarely more than 3-4 boxes left on the shelf that has over a hundred around noon. Sometimes it was even fully sold out.

> I wouldn't even know what to do with a 15 million yen salary, honestly. Crazy money.

With higher salary easily come higher living standards. Bigger house, not looking at food prices so much, more expensive vacations.

I got by with 1.5million yen the last years, but could barely afford the 600million to 1 billion yen family house I would like to have one day (Munich, not SF!) even with a 10mil yen salary (6mil post tax) and no increase in living standards from the 1.5mil.

Re: Recruit Is Japan’s Top Contender for Global Internet Domination

#103

Post by Ultramanoid »

ascar wrote: post #102
Ultramanoid wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having a little trouble following and replying the comments on multiple levels. Been a reader of HN for a couple of years, but a contributing user for only a few days. > This results in the funny situation that for me eating out at cheap shops in Japan is maybe 20-30% more expensive than cooking for myself, while in Germany eating out at cheap shops is 2 to 4 times more expensive than cooking for myself. In the e…

> going to shop at supermarkets and food stalls as late as possible Yes I do the same multiple days per week. It works surprisingly well here though. Rarely more than 3-4 boxes left on the shelf that has over a hundred around noon. Sometimes it was even fully sold out. > I wouldn't even know what to do with a 15 million yen salary, honestly. Crazy money. With higher salary easily come higher living standards. Bigger…

> With higher salary easily come higher living standards. Bigger house, not looking at food prices so much, more expensive vacations.

While I kind of understand it, I also see a difference in general between Japan and not just the West, but also many other places in Asia, notably Chinese cultures ( as referenced before, no discussions of salary for instance in Japan, and no showing-off of means even if you have them ) when it comes to contentment. To reach a point where you don't have to think about getting something better, and that's a decision to make, because there is always something better. As I also mention I keep hearing about 'stagnated economy' but I look around and I see me and everyone I care about being paid, living well. I don't care for 15 million as opposed to 4 in that sense.

お金持ち is easily thrown around slightly offensively in Japan, while in Taiwan callling you rich would be high praise.

I've downsized in many respects over the years. I could spend more on food now, but I don't need to. Used to live in a house 4 times bigger than now, and I wouldn't go back to it for anything now. I earned three times more 20 years ago ( and spent as much as I earned ), but as I also mentioned before, no money in the world is getting me into corporate Japan to die of karoshi or spend 90% of my time stressed, abused, and exhausted.

The only thing money could help with or improve in certain circumstances is health, which in the end is the only thing that really matters in life.

Re: Recruit Is Japan’s Top Contender for Global Internet Domination

#105

Post by Ultramanoid »

VRay wrote: post #100
Ultramanoid wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed it is. I could take quite a few years off with a yearly salary like that, as you say, even in Tokyo.

Comeon dude, don't settle for 10M JPY if you have enough technical competence to follow HackerNews Go work in Silicon Valley for two years at 35M JPY/year, then come back to Japan and spend 8 years making games (or just playing them!) Japan's software industry is toast, no point in investing even one second of your valuable time trying to prop it up. Even their home-grown businesses that fully understand all the intr…

It's a different way of looking at things. I value raising my kids in a place where mass shootings in schools don't happen, and people walk on clean streets, as opposed to walking on trash and litter wondering if someone is going to mug you at any time. Or needing to buy, maintain, insure, drive a car, when you could take a clean safe comfortable train anywhere at any time.

The same reason why I wouldn't take a salary ten times better to live in the U.S. is why I also won't take a salary three times better in Japan that would force me into being married to my laptop and an abusive boss, as opposed to being married to my wife and working from home with much more modest earnings.

We have seen too many friends and relatives try what you suggest.

They work like crazy bastards for 20 or 30 years thinking of retiring with a massive fund, paying well for kids' education, getting a nice house, etc. They end up with mental illness, family who have never spent any time with them, sick from constant abuse, exhaustion, and overwork. If they don't kill themselves in the way. We call it karoshi.

Also, SONY for one ( there are others ) might disagree with your assessment, even in the relatively low place where they're at now.

Re: Recruit Is Japan’s Top Contender for Global Internet Domination

#106

Post by threatofrain »

fiblye wrote: post #101
threatofrain wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason that China is trouncing Taiwan in tech hiring, you need to beat your competitors. What's reasonable to give to someone else to make them do what you want depends on what your competitors do. Framing it as "think of what another Japanese person would be making" is all wrong. We can say the exact same thing about Taiwan, and we surely wouldn't say the way for Taiwan to move forward is to tell candid…

Taiwan is also an absolutely tiny economy compared to China. That money has to come from somewhere. In the case of many countries, it means paying most workers peanuts while paying someone else 10x as much. Some on HN are okay with massive wealth disparity and think it’s great for some international programmer to be valued far more than any local just because they worked at a company like Facebook. Some countries, li…

And that's why Taiwan is in a brain drain to China and the US. Chinese companies don't need to make the same excuses as Taiwanese companies when it comes to money.

Re: Recruit Is Japan’s Top Contender for Global Internet Domination

#107

Post by fiblye »

threatofrain wrote: post #106
fiblye wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan is also an absolutely tiny economy compared to China. That money has to come from somewhere. In the case of many countries, it means paying most workers peanuts while paying someone else 10x as much. Some on HN are okay with massive wealth disparity and think it’s great for some international programmer to be valued far more than any local just because they worked at a company like Facebook. Some countries, li…

And that's why Taiwan is in a brain drain to China and the US. Chinese companies don't need to make the same excuses as Taiwanese companies when it comes to money.

How’s it an excuse?

Hey, Afghanis and Sudanese people out there, want to fix your country? Just quit being poor. Pay money that you don’t have. It’s what the two largest, most powerful, wealthiest countries in the world do, so why can’t you? No excuse not to pay them the same as a Silicon Valley startup getting funding that dwarfs your GDP.

Aside from throwing people out on the streets and cutting wages for the middle class in order to support some yuppie JavaScript coders from another country, it’s not economically possible to just poof money into existence to pay ridiculous wages. I mean yeah, America does it and that works for some people here. Most people despise that.

Re: Recruit Is Japan’s Top Contender for Global Internet Domination

#108

Post by threatofrain »

fiblye wrote: post #107
threatofrain wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's why Taiwan is in a brain drain to China and the US. Chinese companies don't need to make the same excuses as Taiwanese companies when it comes to money.

How’s it an excuse? Hey, Afghanis and Sudanese people out there, want to fix your country? Just quit being poor. Pay money that you don’t have. It’s what the two largest, most powerful, wealthiest countries in the world do, so why can’t you? No excuse not to pay them the same as a Silicon Valley startup getting funding that dwarfs your GDP. Aside from throwing people out on the streets and cutting wages for the middl…

What people should despise is losing their best and brightest to companies overseas. You're talking about immigration, but that doesn't make a brain drain.

Re: Recruit Is Japan’s Top Contender for Global Internet Domination

#109

Post by rurounijones »

VRay wrote: post #100
Ultramanoid wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed it is. I could take quite a few years off with a yearly salary like that, as you say, even in Tokyo.

Comeon dude, don't settle for 10M JPY if you have enough technical competence to follow HackerNews Go work in Silicon Valley for two years at 35M JPY/year, then come back to Japan and spend 8 years making games (or just playing them!) Japan's software industry is toast, no point in investing even one second of your valuable time trying to prop it up. Even their home-grown businesses that fully understand all the intr…

I am with fiblye in that I believe you have vastly overestimated the costs of living in Japan and therefore the relative benefit of a higher salary in the US.

Re: Recruit Is Japan’s Top Contender for Global Internet Domination

#110

Post by VRay »

fiblye wrote: post #107
threatofrain wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's why Taiwan is in a brain drain to China and the US. Chinese companies don't need to make the same excuses as Taiwanese companies when it comes to money.

How’s it an excuse? Hey, Afghanis and Sudanese people out there, want to fix your country? Just quit being poor. Pay money that you don’t have. It’s what the two largest, most powerful, wealthiest countries in the world do, so why can’t you? No excuse not to pay them the same as a Silicon Valley startup getting funding that dwarfs your GDP. Aside from throwing people out on the streets and cutting wages for the middl…

You're looking at the economy and business in general completely wrong. You have a SERIOUS fundamental misunderstanding of how it works.

There isn't a fixed pool of X trillion dollars per year for all companies and government agencies to split up among workers.

If a company gives $300k to some guy in Silicon Valley, he'll turn around and give it to other people providing him with goods and services. They in turn spend the money on things they need.

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