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Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

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Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#131

Post by jameslk »

Since we're making predictions here, I predict that shortly after we adopt meat substitutes, we'll start to question what's inside them. Then the conversation will change from meat substitutes being good and healthy to something akin to the GMO debate about meat substitutes not being natural. And just like GMOs, whether it's actually bad for you or not won't matter. This debate will be a proxy war between Big Meat and some faceless VC-backed corporations trying to make meat proprietary. Some meat substitutes will actually be pretty terrible but #notallmeatsubstitutes. Unfortunately, it will only take a few bad substitutes to ruin the name of all.

I also predict that meat substitutes, if made cheaper than meat, will be deemed inferior in quality (cheap = inferior, because psychology) and reserved for those who cannot afford real meat (the "meatless masses").

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#133

Post by artursapek »

chadcmulligan wrote: post #72

I'm looking forward to the cow/pig/sheep/chicken extinction event - no one will keep them around, except maybe in zoos, if the whole world is vegan. Edit: a downvote? this is totally serious - what are they going to be - released back into the wild where they roam free? There won't be any more, except as I said in zoos, if the whole world goes vegan

You apparently have no idea how important those animals are to the health of soil (and growing good vegetables)

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#134

Post by AnimalMuppet »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #52
tgb wrote: post #8

I think he's wrong about people not having loyalty to meat. There is a ton of literal hatred for veganism and vegetarians in this world. Think of the practically cult-like following bacon has. I recall a thread some years ago on Reddit's r/fitness with someone asking for vegan protein sources due to certain allergies or other health restrictions and it was spammed with dozens of comments along the lines of "bacon" an…

There is a ton of literal hatred for veganism and vegetarians in this world. I think there is a ton of literal hatred for vegans and vegetarians, who tend to position themselves as morally superior to meat eaters and brag about how they are kinder and gentler than meat eaters, often while being openly cruel people. They are frequently seemingly oblivious to the glaring contradictions between their self image and thei…

My daughter recently said something about "narcissistic ideology" - something that is adhered to, not because it's true, but because it gives a sense of moral superiority to the adherent. I think that's an interesting label for the type of person you had the misfortune to run into.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#135

Post by companyhen »

thom wrote: post #81

I was brought up vegetarian, and while I gave it up when I got married and had kids, I've never really grown to love the taste of meat. The thing I'm most annoyed by is that nice tasting veggie dishes are often being replaced in restaurants with horrible tasting meat-substitute dishes trying to capture the taste of beef or whatever. This is probably just me against the universe though.

I was brought up omnivore and have been vegetarian since August 2018 and love the meat substitutes. Beyond Burgers and Field Roast sausages helped me with the transition to plant based.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#136

Post by dtornabene »

ams6110 wrote: post #132

I think any change in this would be generational. I grew up eating meat, and I have no interest in meat substitutes. Also, the track record on substitute foods isn't good. Look at the health disasters caused by artificial sweeteners, artificial oils, etc.

Yeah, I don't eat meat at this point because of health problems, but I miss it, and have zero desire to switch to that. and you are absolutely correct on substitute foods.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#137

Post by raz32dust »

Tastier, cheaper, AND equally nutritious (or even more nutritious). I see this as kind of inevitable. It will take a lot of iterations though before the nutrients are optimized. We still don't really have a good understanding of the role played by all the components of food, and the interactions with gut bacteria specific to a person.

Rather than the pretend-meats like impossible burger and beyond burger, I am more excited for lab-grown meat. That is much more likely to have the exact same features are actual meat (because it is, after all, actual meat). Minus the moral and environmental concerns.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#138

Post by seanalltogether »

leroy_masochist wrote: post #89

I live on and help operate a small family farm (230 head of grass fed cattle) and I don't think that meat substitutes will hurt our sales or margins, unless and until their quality results in a broad shift in societal attitudes that leads to meat itself becoming illegal. I do absolutely think that it will reduce the demand for industrially farmed, feedlot-fed, commodity-priced meat, and this is a good thing.

I would not be surprised if meat substitutes inevitably end up increasing the value of real meat.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#139

Post by newnewpdro »

chadcmulligan wrote: post #72

I'm looking forward to the cow/pig/sheep/chicken extinction event - no one will keep them around, except maybe in zoos, if the whole world is vegan. Edit: a downvote? this is totally serious - what are they going to be - released back into the wild where they roam free? There won't be any more, except as I said in zoos, if the whole world goes vegan

There will never be zero people on the planet keeping hens for eggs, you've lost your mind.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#140

Post by jjjensen90 »

ams6110 wrote: post #132

I think any change in this would be generational. I grew up eating meat, and I have no interest in meat substitutes. Also, the track record on substitute foods isn't good. Look at the health disasters caused by artificial sweeteners, artificial oils, etc.

You do have a good point about the track record of some substitutes, but that ignores the track record of the health and environmental damage of our current meat consumption.
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