Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes
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Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes
#2One thing i’d genuinely like to see more of in the US is easy and sanely priced access to wild game.
Deer populations being what they are, and populations of environmentally troublesome species such as feral boars being what they are, it seems like a net win.
i would love to be able to get my hands on venison or boar that’s been processed in a USDA-approved way, because the meat’s high quality, the animals had lives entirely free of cages and farms, and we really do kind of need to balance out herd sizes in the northeast.
it is currently a regulatory nightmare to do this at scale, which is why nobody does. I can solve my own problem with a 6 week wait and a slug gun, but it’d be nice to address the conservation need at a more moderate scale.
Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes
#3He’s talking about meat stand-ins, things designed to mimic meat in every way. Definitely a market for that.
But fantastic meat substitutes already exist. I’m not vegetarian but never order meat with Indian or Chinese or Thai food and am thrilled with so-called mock duck, chicken and even fish. And when that’s not available, tofu does the job. At home, bolognese, tacos or chili with fake ground beef are awesome and I look forward to those being on menus too. I agree we’re at a tipping point.
Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes
#4He’s talking about meat stand-ins, things designed to mimic meat in every way. Definitely a market for that. But fantastic meat substitutes already exist. I’m not vegetarian but never order meat with Indian or Chinese or Thai food and am thrilled with so-called mock duck, chicken and even fish. And when that’s not available, tofu does the job. At home, bolognese, tacos or chili with fake ground beef are awesome and I…
Seitan is nice! A lot of americans who are in the demographic to be into substitute meat won't touch it because it is literally a blob of gluten with sauce.
Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes
#5His statement about how it will increase economic inequality is pretty interesting. Meat substitutes/alternatives are often marketed ideologically as something that will help reduce economic inequality since it would eventually become more cost effective than trying to raise something to slaughtering age. I'm not sure how it being a startup is a problem, but didn't think about the smaller farms who would be out of business.
Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes
#6He’s talking about meat stand-ins, things designed to mimic meat in every way. Definitely a market for that. But fantastic meat substitutes already exist. I’m not vegetarian but never order meat with Indian or Chinese or Thai food and am thrilled with so-called mock duck, chicken and even fish. And when that’s not available, tofu does the job. At home, bolognese, tacos or chili with fake ground beef are awesome and I…
Seitan is nice! A lot of americans who are in the demographic to be into substitute meat won't touch it because it is literally a blob of gluten with sauce.
I think where seitan excels is where the meat it is substituting is heavily seasoned and in smaller pieces.
I’d never eat a seitan log as a Thanksgiving turkey substitute, but ironically one of the things you discover when you begin to substitute meat is that a lot of “classics” are flavorless. Chicken, turkey and most fish flesh can be bland and rubbery, which is why they are fried or smothered in sauces as a rule.
Speaking of texture though I think Chipotle made a mistake by using tofu in their meat-substitute filling - it’s just too smooshy for most people. Seitan would have been more successful and I bet they were just afraid of using that word on the menu.
Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seitan is nice! A lot of americans who are in the demographic to be into substitute meat won't touch it because it is literally a blob of gluten with sauce.
I think where seitan excels is where the meat it is substituting is heavily seasoned and in smaller pieces. I’d never eat a seitan log as a Thanksgiving turkey substitute, but ironically one of the things you discover when you begin to substitute meat is that a lot of “classics” are flavorless. Chicken, turkey and most fish flesh can be bland and rubbery, which is why they are fried or smothered in sauces as a rule.…
They are only rubbery if you overcook them.
Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes
#8I think he's wrong about people not having loyalty to meat. There is a ton of literal hatred for veganism and vegetarians in this world. Think of the practically cult-like following bacon has. I recall a thread some years ago on Reddit's r/fitness with someone asking for vegan protein sources due to certain allergies or other health restrictions and it was spammed with dozens of comments along the lines of "bacon" and even one that suggested semen. People have their diet deeply embedded in their self-image. Cheaper and tastier won't change that many people's opinions. Meat will stay at least a luxury food even if the alternatives are literally superior in every tangible way - it'll be signalling at the very least. Cheaper might actually make it into a "poor person's food." But there'll also be aversion to "lab grown" instead of "natural" and things like that - see resistance to GMOs.
Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes
#9As a recent vegetarian, I’m over the meat substitutes. There are only two products I’ve liked, otherwise... the non meat substitutes are way tastier.
A good veggie burger patty beats the Impossible burger, in my book.
Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes
#10Would substitute meat be cheaper than regular meat? Sure, the inputs might be cheaper eventually, but it's not as if the firm that solves the riddle will simply give their IP to competitors.