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Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

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Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#121

Post by mc32 »

thom wrote: post #81

I was brought up vegetarian, and while I gave it up when I got married and had kids, I've never really grown to love the taste of meat. The thing I'm most annoyed by is that nice tasting veggie dishes are often being replaced in restaurants with horrible tasting meat-substitute dishes trying to capture the taste of beef or whatever. This is probably just me against the universe though.

Some Buddhist monks are known to make plant protein taste like meat and resemble the texture of meat. These are served with regular vegetables. Anyhow, some are better than others. Of course palates are quite personal.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#122

Post by chadcmulligan »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #71

The question will be are we making Margarine 2.0?

I've had the same thought - vegetarianism is a proven healthy diet choice, the problem is, its not really something you can manufacture and make money off, because its just plants. Enter manufactured meat substitute, its made of plants, so it must be healthy, but that's not necessarily true. Much of the health benefits of a plant diet seem to come from trace phytochemicals and no one really knows which ones work, and there seem to be interactions between them (e.g. antioxidants).

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#123

Post by david-gpu »

z3t4 wrote: post #102
thom wrote: post #81

I was brought up vegetarian, and while I gave it up when I got married and had kids, I've never really grown to love the taste of meat. The thing I'm most annoyed by is that nice tasting veggie dishes are often being replaced in restaurants with horrible tasting meat-substitute dishes trying to capture the taste of beef or whatever. This is probably just me against the universe though.

I sometimes taste Raw meat to make sure its fresh. Its pretty much tasteless. Its all about how its prepared.

You can make a brother with nothing but meat and salt and it will be flavorful. That's a big part of why making meat substitutes is so hard.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#125

Post by justin66 »

paulcole wrote: post #31
mattmanser wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're very wrong and pg is spot on. I remember when Vegan/Vegetarians were sneered at in the UK 25 years ago, but they aren't now. In the space of 25 years it's gone from being rare to see veggie options, to it being the norm to have at least 25% non-meat options on the menu. Attitudes change, and once it's gone, most people will eventually find the idea of rearing animals to kill repellant. If you can deliv…

I think you’re very wrong. Vegans/Vegetarians are still sneered at in the US. Any non major city/college town in the South/Midwest is still dominated by meat and the associated culture. Thanksgiving alone is a nearly insurmountable hurdle. “Tofurky” is still a gross joke to most people. You and PG are both vastly underestimating the emotional attachment people have to their current way of life.

> Thanksgiving alone is a nearly insurmountable hurdle. “Tofurky” is still a gross joke to most people.

I share Thanksgiving dinner with a number of vegetarians. We all enjoy making many different dishes, and the vegetarians just skip the ones with meat. I don't think I've ever heard anyone utter the word "tofurkey" and tofu has never featured in such a meal. (Total veganism is trickier to accommodate)

I think our Thanksgiving dinners would be harder for a person with an aversion to root vegetables to navigate than a vegetarian. I wonder how most people are doing Thanksgiving dinner, is having all meat dishes the norm?

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#126

Post by greglindahl »

JasonFruit wrote: post #27

Maybe it's my rural background and associations, but I see a powerful psychological effect to eating meat from a real animal, and that won't disappear because some meat substitute tastes pretty good. I like falafel, I like shiitake mushrooms, I like a good veggie burger, but there's no substitute for the flesh of an animal — especially one I raised, where I know its diet, its experiences, and how it was slaughtered a…

Many vegans see a powerful psychological effect to eating meat from a real animal -- you probably weren't thinking of them as examples of people like you!

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#127

Post by cwbrandsma »

tdeck wrote: post #94
thom wrote: post #81

I was brought up vegetarian, and while I gave it up when I got married and had kids, I've never really grown to love the taste of meat. The thing I'm most annoyed by is that nice tasting veggie dishes are often being replaced in restaurants with horrible tasting meat-substitute dishes trying to capture the taste of beef or whatever. This is probably just me against the universe though.

As a meat eater I fully agree. If it's going to be made of vegetables, fine. But I'm put off by foods pretending to be something they're not.

One of my worst meals ever was a vegetarian Asian meal in Salt Lake City. The dish was “Chicken...” something or other. The “chicken” was tofu shaped like a chicken wing with feathers. No where on the menu did it say the place was vegetarian.

I have nothing against eating tofu. I enjoy tofu. But the bait and switch ruined the meal for me.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#128

Post by fufufuffu »

Capitalism isn't required for meat substitutes to be researched and developed. Transition programs, agricultural or job sectoral, or subsidies would be available in any sane society for small farmers if they were pushed out of the cruel practice of animal slaughter.

We don't need saviors. We don't need the rich. We just need each other and the will to move beyond private ownership of the factories, farms, and shops.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#129

Post by greglindahl »

mechamicro wrote: post #88
chadcmulligan wrote: post #72

I'm looking forward to the cow/pig/sheep/chicken extinction event - no one will keep them around, except maybe in zoos, if the whole world is vegan. Edit: a downvote? this is totally serious - what are they going to be - released back into the wild where they roam free? There won't be any more, except as I said in zoos, if the whole world goes vegan

Chickens will probably stick around. A German company has discovered a way to determine a chick's gender while still in the egg. That will end the cruel practice of tossing male chicks into a grinder. And will allow cruelty free eggs to be produced. As long as the hens have space, comfortable quarters, and allowed to keep living in those conditions after they stop laying. For those who are vegan for purely ethical re…

It's not a good idea to be confident predicting how anyone will see your ethical argument. There's a lot of things people still consider cruel left in egg production after the practices you mention change.
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