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Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

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Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#91

Post by int_19h »

dagw wrote: post #49
rjf72 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most (all?) states in the US selling hunted game, such as deer or boar, is illegal. Conflicted opinions on this. I very strongly support the right to hunt, and also find it vastly more humane for the animals. On top of this I also tend to take a libertarian slant on most things. However, in this specific case you have a textbook tragedy of the commons waiting to happen. The reason game is so widespread is specific…

Doesn't the US already have hunting seasons and quotas?

It does, but we're talking about seriously overpopulated animals which are destroying ecosystems - wild pigs are the biggest concern there. For those, even where there are permits, there usually aren't quotas. And despite no limits, there aren't enough hunters to keep them in check.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#92

Post by chadcmulligan »

mechamicro wrote: post #88
chadcmulligan wrote: post #72

I'm looking forward to the cow/pig/sheep/chicken extinction event - no one will keep them around, except maybe in zoos, if the whole world is vegan. Edit: a downvote? this is totally serious - what are they going to be - released back into the wild where they roam free? There won't be any more, except as I said in zoos, if the whole world goes vegan

Chickens will probably stick around. A German company has discovered a way to determine a chick's gender while still in the egg. That will end the cruel practice of tossing male chicks into a grinder. And will allow cruelty free eggs to be produced. As long as the hens have space, comfortable quarters, and allowed to keep living in those conditions after they stop laying. For those who are vegan for purely ethical re…

I thought most vegans are against eggs? Laying eggs is cruel to chickens I've heard (just quoting here)

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#93

Post by uxcolumbo »

JasonFruit wrote: post #27

Maybe it's my rural background and associations, but I see a powerful psychological effect to eating meat from a real animal, and that won't disappear because some meat substitute tastes pretty good. I like falafel, I like shiitake mushrooms, I like a good veggie burger, but there's no substitute for the flesh of an animal — especially one I raised, where I know its diet, its experiences, and how it was slaughtered a…

Can you explain what you mean with 'psychological effect'?

And what exactly of eating the flesh of another animal makes you human.

I can understand our ancestors having to hunt and kill animals to survive.

But I don't think modern society needs to kill so many animals (billions) and destroy the environment to survive. It's a rather inefficient way to feed the world.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#94

Post by tdeck »

thom wrote: post #81

I was brought up vegetarian, and while I gave it up when I got married and had kids, I've never really grown to love the taste of meat. The thing I'm most annoyed by is that nice tasting veggie dishes are often being replaced in restaurants with horrible tasting meat-substitute dishes trying to capture the taste of beef or whatever. This is probably just me against the universe though.

As a meat eater I fully agree. If it's going to be made of vegetables, fine. But I'm put off by foods pretending to be something they're not.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#95

Post by bastawhiz »

chrisseaton wrote: post #87
j605 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were all modified through the generations to make them a commodity. If they have no purpose, them going extinct is not a bad thing. Most of them are optimized for meat or other purposes and they probably can't survive outside. It would be humane to let them go extinct after we transition. FWIW we already wiped them off the Earth, you don't find a lot of wild cows or chickens other than the ones we have modified.

> they probably can't survive outside You should come and see the sheep roaming around the mountains near me. They keep the grasslands under control, and they happily mind their own business. I don't think they need genocide.

Who's going to pay to transport sheep to grassland? Who's going to rehabilitate a pig that's never been outside a cage? What do we do with cows? There's a lot of unanswered questions, and not many mountains waiting for unwanted sheep.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#96

Post by LifeLiverTransp »

This whole discussion reminds me of the LED benefits promised. We would save so much energy. Same thing here- we will have so many calories with so little agri-culture- and we will all give it back to nature.

Fast forward - and i cant see the stars in my city.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#97

Post by chrisseaton »

bastawhiz wrote: post #95
chrisseaton wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they probably can't survive outside You should come and see the sheep roaming around the mountains near me. They keep the grasslands under control, and they happily mind their own business. I don't think they need genocide.

Who's going to pay to transport sheep to grassland? Who's going to rehabilitate a pig that's never been outside a cage? What do we do with cows? There's a lot of unanswered questions, and not many mountains waiting for unwanted sheep.

I didn't say we should move any around. The person I was replying to said extinction as in all of them, even those minding their own business elsewhere.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#98

Post by baddox »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #54
JasonFruit wrote: post #27

Maybe it's my rural background and associations, but I see a powerful psychological effect to eating meat from a real animal, and that won't disappear because some meat substitute tastes pretty good. I like falafel, I like shiitake mushrooms, I like a good veggie burger, but there's no substitute for the flesh of an animal — especially one I raised, where I know its diet, its experiences, and how it was slaughtered a…

Maybe it's my rural background and associations... Almost certainly. People tend to feel that however they grew up is the one right and true way to live. It can be an extremely difficult feeling to escape, even in cases where they actively very much want to leave it behind and live some other way, for example people who were abused and are in therapy and trying hard to find a better way to live.

I don’t think the parent commenter is claiming that his/her way of life is “the one right and true way.” I think the point is that people’s own preferences are influenced by how they grew up and thus changing their diets dramatically will not be so simple.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#99

Post by tdeck »

chrisseaton wrote: post #87
j605 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were all modified through the generations to make them a commodity. If they have no purpose, them going extinct is not a bad thing. Most of them are optimized for meat or other purposes and they probably can't survive outside. It would be humane to let them go extinct after we transition. FWIW we already wiped them off the Earth, you don't find a lot of wild cows or chickens other than the ones we have modified.

> they probably can't survive outside You should come and see the sheep roaming around the mountains near me. They keep the grasslands under control, and they happily mind their own business. I don't think they need genocide.

Many breeds of sheep need to be sheared as they've been bred to not shed their wool.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/0...

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#100

Post by j605 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #87
j605 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were all modified through the generations to make them a commodity. If they have no purpose, them going extinct is not a bad thing. Most of them are optimized for meat or other purposes and they probably can't survive outside. It would be humane to let them go extinct after we transition. FWIW we already wiped them off the Earth, you don't find a lot of wild cows or chickens other than the ones we have modified.

> they probably can't survive outside You should come and see the sheep roaming around the mountains near me. They keep the grasslands under control, and they happily mind their own business. I don't think they need genocide.

> They keep the grasslands under control, and they happily mind their own business. I don't think they need genocide.

I never asked for them to be killed. Letting them go extinct is different from killing them en masse.

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