I'm a 25 year practising western Buddhist. My perspective on this is it can be a danger to take just one part of the noble eight-fold path to such an extreme completely separated from the rest of the path. One should focus first on the base of path, get that in order and reinforce it through repeated practice. By that I mean (mundane) right view, (mundane) right intention, right speech, right action and right livelihood. They should be the majority of your focus at least. Not the higher level work of right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration (the meditative practices). That would be like trying to build the top on a pyramid before building the bottom, or trying to row your boat across the river without unhitching it from the bank.
I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs
61–70 of 99 posts
Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs
#62This phenomenon is in sweden termed meditational psychosis (meditationspsykos), and is not connected to meditation that is especially intense or extensive. Having happened to people without drug backgrounds or mental problems, some tried meditation only once. The only common denominator is meditation, in any form really.
Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lack of sleep, sudden change of routine, total immersion in a new mindset, and withholding food is the classic playbook of cult indoctrination. The point is to weaken existing barriers that would otherwise keep people aloof, disengaged, and instead create a total experience. I’m not claiming that a meditation retreat is a cult indoctrination, at least not most of the time. It does however share some commonalities wit…
>>Lack of sleep, sudden change of routine, total immersion in a new mindset, and withholding food is the classic playbook of cult indoctrination. None of these: >>awake and breakfast at ~6AM, dinner at 4pm, lights out at 9PM (and no meal until breakfast the next day.) ..fit your criteria. Lights out at 9PM and waking up at 6AM gives up to 9 hours of sleep. That's plenty. Similarly, going from 4:30-5PM until 6AM witho…
Once you adjust to the schedule, it's fine.
Before you adjust, having a meal at the wrong time and sleep at the wrong time can be somewhat equivalent to skipping both of them. If you ask me to fall asleep at 9PM without any previous setup, it will not happen, and I will not be rested at 6AM.
Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs
#64I found the article a little disorganized and the author seems to be having trouble expounding a clear thesis. I just read it for the second time, and I still don’t have a good grasp of what he experienced or what connections he’s trying to make to Buddhism. Maybe that’s understandable given what happened to him (though I’m not really sure of, besides him going “crazy”), but I still think that as a journalist he shou…
> I found the article a little disorganized and the author seems to be having trouble expounding a clear thesis. How many psychotic episodes have you had in your life? Perhaps it is amazing that the author could even put words to paper to describe the experience. Yes, the piece is a bit rambling, but how often do you get a first-hand account of a visit to the Dark Night and back again? The notion that meditation is n…
>Yes, the piece is a bit rambling, but how often do you get a first-hand account of a visit to the Dark Night and back again?
All the time. From authors, from Dostoyevsky and Sartre to Hunter Thompson, to random people (seems a good chunk of Medium, for example, includes such experiences)
Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs
#65I found the article a little disorganized and the author seems to be having trouble expounding a clear thesis. I just read it for the second time, and I still don’t have a good grasp of what he experienced or what connections he’s trying to make to Buddhism. Maybe that’s understandable given what happened to him (though I’m not really sure of, besides him going “crazy”), but I still think that as a journalist he shou…
> I found the article a little disorganized and the author seems to be having trouble expounding a clear thesis. How many psychotic episodes have you had in your life? Perhaps it is amazing that the author could even put words to paper to describe the experience. Yes, the piece is a bit rambling, but how often do you get a first-hand account of a visit to the Dark Night and back again? The notion that meditation is n…
The MCTB book - https://www.mctb.org
And the Dharma Overground wiki and forum https://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wik...
I'm quite surprised that the article didn't link to it as a support and enthusiast resource for hardcore meditators (even though he mentions it)
Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs
#66This sounds a lot like vipasana meditation center.
I've been to one in Nepal, and the police didn't have to escort me out of it, I did it myself on the 3rd day.
It was all fine, I didn't mind meditating, but evertyhing else was too much like prison for my taste. One thing that just didn't sit right with me was that,it was supposed to be a silent retreat but the only people you are not supposed to talk to were the other guests. The staff was definitelly talking to you and expected answers. Also things like, this afternoon I feel like skipping one hour of mediation and taking a nap were not allowed.
Later reading about these meditation centers and Sri Goenka, I found out that he developed his system in prisons and the prison like made sense to me.
Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs
#67Meditation retreats sound interesting, but they've always struck me as tending to have a fairly grueling, bizarre schedule- awake and breakfast at ~6AM, dinner at 4pm, lights out at 9PM (and no meal until breakfast the next day.) It strikes me as the worst setup for long meditation sessions- getting everyone sleepy and hungry and out of sorts. That it would send susceptible people off the deep end doesn't sound surpr…
The one I did was breakfast 7 AM, lunch either 11 AM or 12 PM (I forget), and no food after that. I didn't find it an issue since I ate a big lunch then used little energy and went to bed early.
Was it positive in the end? Is it possible to replicate the experience at all apart from the retreat?
Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs
#68How[0] many[1] times[3] is this going to be posted here? 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18798910 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18792327 3. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18789188
FYI, the repost was recommended by HN itself, which they occasionally do.
Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs
#69Being a Buddhist born person living in a mostly Buddhist country this saddens me. It seems all this hype with so called Buddhist retreats and meditation apps in the western world is pretty much twisting the teachings of Buddha. Monks have practiced meditation for centuries without any adverse effects as mentioned in the article. It seems like they focus on _state of being mindful_ than really being mindful. Meditatio…
In the west, Buddhism is often stripped of the low intensity, community oriented aspects of Buddhism present in Buddhist countries; and what remains of them is invested with alien majesty.
For example, when Japanese Zen is practiced in the west, bowing to Buddha and one another is an integral part of the practice. It is something that many western people struggle with, as it connotes considerable deference in the west. In Japan, however, people bow in many professional contexts, at the beginning of class, and in many non-institutional social contexts as well. The bowing in a temple setting is a continuation of this. It's a little more regimented -- in a temple setting, we are to bow to everyone as we pass them -- but not such an enormous departure from everyday life. One the one hand, bowing in the west is something that has an exaggerated significance, relative to what it has in Japan; on the other, bowing is something where we see a continuity between Buddhism and everyday life in Japan, but not in the west.
Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs
#70This article is an important read for any meditation enthusiast who isn't aware that it's not all rainbows and ponies. Intense meditation does affect brain structure, and how it affects different individuals can be unpredictable. This is why some people will need extra support. I have done intense meditation before and became a much calmer person. I experienced a level of peace and harmony that felt like my mind was…
I think what you mean by dark night is the last chapter in The Mind Illuminated. Being red pilled with the literature doesn't make you immune to the "dark night"
Also don't by misguided by monks and nuns who are in RELIGION e.g Theravada (Zen is good). They sell their religion by calling it a philosophy which is by crap. Studying Theravada ~hundreds of hours with meditating you learn a lot about Early Buddhism but you get entangled in religion with: worshipping, reading the sutras religiously etc)
As Albert Camus said: "Dogma is philosophical suicide".
>Kierkegaard stated that a belief in anything beyond the Absurd requires an irrational but perhaps necessary religious "leap" into the intangible and empirically unprovable (now commonly referred to as a "leap of faith"). However, Camus regarded this solution, and others, as "philosophical suicide".