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I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

esquire.com

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Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#11

Post by a_bonobo »

walrus01 wrote: post #4

> I didn’t want to stay medicated (my previous stint had lasted a decade), and I understood that the rules of the retreat meant that as I had left before the end, I could not go back. Vipassanā makes it clear in its literature regarding “serious mental disorders” that: “Our capacity as a non-professional volunteer organisation makes it impossible to properly care for people with these backgrounds.” I don't really see…

From the text it sounds like there was a large amount of time between the hospital/medication (that was in the mid-Nineties) and the meditation retreat, which I assume was relatively recent - I don't think he was on meds by then?

>I had been screened out at the initial application because of my history and then, after going into detail, accepted, as my prior issues were so long ago.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#12

Post by maxander »

Meditation retreats sound interesting, but they've always struck me as tending to have a fairly grueling, bizarre schedule- awake and breakfast at ~6AM, dinner at 4pm, lights out at 9PM (and no meal until breakfast the next day.) It strikes me as the worst setup for long meditation sessions- getting everyone sleepy and hungry and out of sorts. That it would send susceptible people off the deep end doesn't sound surprising.

As a sort of "negative control," I wonder if psychosis is as frequently triggered by other taxing programs; for instance, army basic training? There too people are forced to sleep on an artificial schedule, meals are regimented and at potentially unfamiliar times, and most of the day is spent in unfamiliar, effortful activity (but all of which is probably diametrically opposite to meditation.)

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#13

Post by Alex3917 »

jaggederest wrote: post #10
Alex3917 wrote: post #2

I've shared a bunch of Willoughby Britton's talks here in the past, mostly from the Buddhist Geeks podcast/conference. They're super interesting, I'd recommend checking them out.

Do you have any links? I browsed your submission history but it's fairly lengthy.

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=alex3917%20willoughby&sort=byP...

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#14

Post by mirceal »

mruts wrote: post #3

I found the article a little disorganized and the author seems to be having trouble expounding a clear thesis. I just read it for the second time, and I still don’t have a good grasp of what he experienced or what connections he’s trying to make to Buddhism. Maybe that’s understandable given what happened to him (though I’m not really sure of, besides him going “crazy”), but I still think that as a journalist he shou…

the message is that meditation has a dark side and some previous imbalances may land you in deep trouble. people don’t really acknowledge this and put an = between meditation and calm/transcendence.

same thing as with certain types of substances. you may have a really good or a really bad experience. at least with meditation there is some work (a lot actually) involved and along the way you get a chance to process some of the things that happen to you.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#15

Post by jcoffland »

mruts wrote: post #3

I found the article a little disorganized and the author seems to be having trouble expounding a clear thesis. I just read it for the second time, and I still don’t have a good grasp of what he experienced or what connections he’s trying to make to Buddhism. Maybe that’s understandable given what happened to him (though I’m not really sure of, besides him going “crazy”), but I still think that as a journalist he shou…

Sounds like you started reading prepared to defend Buddhism but failed to find a well defined attack against it.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#16

Post by jason_slack »

maxander wrote: post #12

Meditation retreats sound interesting, but they've always struck me as tending to have a fairly grueling, bizarre schedule- awake and breakfast at ~6AM, dinner at 4pm, lights out at 9PM (and no meal until breakfast the next day.) It strikes me as the worst setup for long meditation sessions- getting everyone sleepy and hungry and out of sorts. That it would send susceptible people off the deep end doesn't sound surpr…

I did a 10 day Vipassana retreat recently. It was indeed grueling. Up at 4. Start meditating at 4:30, etc. It was hard but rewarding. Im still celebrating the rewards and I did this 6 months ago.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#17

Post by skullgrid »

maxander wrote: post #12

Meditation retreats sound interesting, but they've always struck me as tending to have a fairly grueling, bizarre schedule- awake and breakfast at ~6AM, dinner at 4pm, lights out at 9PM (and no meal until breakfast the next day.) It strikes me as the worst setup for long meditation sessions- getting everyone sleepy and hungry and out of sorts. That it would send susceptible people off the deep end doesn't sound surpr…

I did a week-long silent meditation retreat in Thailand a few years ago. I thought it would be difficult for the same reasons you mention -- I tend towards night-owling and loathe the thought of not eating for more than a few hours. It turned out to be much much easier than I expected. Without electronics and other sources of artificial light the circadian rhythm shifts to the sunrise-sunset cycle pretty rapidly. I slept quite well for the majority of my stay. As to the food, I think we're just conditioned to think we need way more than we really do. Eating two meals was only hard the first full day, and after that it felt fine. The meals were on the large side so it wasn't a large calorie deficit, if any. I definitely encourage you to try it if it's something you're interested in, you may be surprised at what you're capable of.

e: in light of what jason_slack said - your experience may vary, of course. Just saying that personally I did not find the sleeping/eating situation to be too difficult after a couple of days. My biggest struggle was actually sitting on the ground for so many hours per day. My hips and legs have become so tight from chronically sitting in an office chair that maintaining good posture on the floor was very painful for me (I've actually since started stretching regularly to work on this).

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#18

Post by c54 »

maxander wrote: post #12

Meditation retreats sound interesting, but they've always struck me as tending to have a fairly grueling, bizarre schedule- awake and breakfast at ~6AM, dinner at 4pm, lights out at 9PM (and no meal until breakfast the next day.) It strikes me as the worst setup for long meditation sessions- getting everyone sleepy and hungry and out of sorts. That it would send susceptible people off the deep end doesn't sound surpr…

A lot of the reasoning behind these kinds of shock-related systems is exactly as you describe, to shift you out of your previous modes of function and directly into a new mode.

The participants of the group (meditation retreat, army boot camp, etc) are all 'reset' into this new mode simultaneously and together, increasing group coherence.

The point is not to be comfortable, the point is to spend all one's time and mental energy doing the new thing, whatever that may be. I suspect most folks are extremely shaken for the first two to four days and then settle into the new routine.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#19

Post by throwaway34241 »

maxander wrote: post #12

Meditation retreats sound interesting, but they've always struck me as tending to have a fairly grueling, bizarre schedule- awake and breakfast at ~6AM, dinner at 4pm, lights out at 9PM (and no meal until breakfast the next day.) It strikes me as the worst setup for long meditation sessions- getting everyone sleepy and hungry and out of sorts. That it would send susceptible people off the deep end doesn't sound surpr…

If you're going to sleep that early, I don't understand what the problem is with that schedule? For example, if you made everything 3 hours later, that would be breakfast at 9AM, dinner at 7PM and lights out at midnight. That's still 9 hours of sleep... it's probably a bit early compared to the average coder schedule, but waking up around sunrise doesn't seem all that strange (compared to waking up hours after the sun is up).

Is there no lunch maybe?

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