Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 345 posts

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#161

Post by Pristina »

terminus wrote: post #152
xyzzy123 wrote: post #102

I am surprised that no-one has brought up a neutrality argument yet. The app is legal within Saudi Arabia and in fact published by their government. Are we to take down any app which violates anyone’s morals? Or just the morals of particular countries? If an app is blasphemous by the standards of say Mormonism or Islam, should we take it down? After everyone is done, how many apps will be left? If we enforce some mor…

> If we enforce some morals and not others in our app stores, who exactly do we choose as the arbiters of morality? U.S. public opinion? Chinese public opinion? Maybe the U.N? I agree that not every situation is this easy to decide but this one -- women as chattel -- seems rather staightforward. Corporations claim free speech rights (via corporate personhood) all the time. Not using those rights in this case seems to…

>seems rather staightforward.

So your entire argument is based on your personal subjective valuation that it is straightforward.

The idea that a homosexual should be thrown from a bridge onto an oncoming train is as straightforward to a good many people as this is to you.

What you are invoking here is really 'US public opinion' or its related 'western world public opinion' circa. 2019.

If this is basically all the substance of your argument, then your position is no better than the moslem over there that thinks blasphemer should be beheaded.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#162

Post by darkpuma »

m-p-3 wrote: post #90
rgbrenner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't because Saudi Arabia also owns part of Lyft (2.3%): https://www.reuters.com/article/lyft-kingdom-holding-ma/saud...

So if they're not happy they'll sell their parts? Win-win.

Or they'd buy more and put a stop to advertising campaign.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#163

Post by gammateam »

I'm loosing touch here, why is this not a manufactured controversy and instead an actual complaint that has any merit?

Why aren't we "accusing" ISPs from routing to the website?

"Accusing" wayback machine of caching it?

"Accusing" CDNs of not null-routing it?

so this article gets to masquerade Apple and Google's power consolidation as a good thing and you guys eat it up? I'm going to call my publicist and start my own word games if this is so effective.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#164

Post by watwut »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #102

I am surprised that no-one has brought up a neutrality argument yet. The app is legal within Saudi Arabia and in fact published by their government. Are we to take down any app which violates anyone’s morals? Or just the morals of particular countries? If an app is blasphemous by the standards of say Mormonism or Islam, should we take it down? After everyone is done, how many apps will be left? If we enforce some mor…

We blame companies for helping catch Chinese or Saudi etc dissidents too. We blame them when they help catching human rights activists.

Generally speaking, tolerance goes from here to there.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#165

Post by watwut »

JackPoach wrote: post #150
xyzzy123 wrote: post #102

I am surprised that no-one has brought up a neutrality argument yet. The app is legal within Saudi Arabia and in fact published by their government. Are we to take down any app which violates anyone’s morals? Or just the morals of particular countries? If an app is blasphemous by the standards of say Mormonism or Islam, should we take it down? After everyone is done, how many apps will be left? If we enforce some mor…

I agree. It's kind of pointless to demand from FB, Apple, Google, Amazon and other tech giants that they both don't interfere with freedom of speech and other freedoms and do promote various kinds of favorable social agendas at the same time. Also, KSA is backward as fuck, I just don't see how it's Google's fault that someone wants to live in the dark ages.

But ... the app is designed to prevent the freedom. The function of notifying is literally for the purpose of stopping women who don't want to live like that by people who force them to live in the "dark ages".

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#166

Post by avip »

travmatt wrote: post #156
int_19h wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we really need with respect to Saudi Arabia is a popular campaign similar to the one that was directed at South Africa in 1980s. Boycott everything they have a stake in. Push your government to embargo everything they buy or sell. They're in a much weaker position than SAR, too, in terms of what they need to import, so it'd be much more effective.

They’re still the predominant player in the world oil markets, and the leader of OPEC. Oil is too deeply ingrained in the modern economy to seriously consider boycotting them, and even if possible, the resulting economic shock from a successful boycott would be severe.

Unless you conquer Venezuela first.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#167

Post by Mindwipe »

ulfw wrote: post #155
xyzzy123 wrote: post #102

I am surprised that no-one has brought up a neutrality argument yet. The app is legal within Saudi Arabia and in fact published by their government. Are we to take down any app which violates anyone’s morals? Or just the morals of particular countries? If an app is blasphemous by the standards of say Mormonism or Islam, should we take it down? After everyone is done, how many apps will be left? If we enforce some mor…

> Are we to take down any app which violates anyone’s morals? Yet all adult apps are banned, just because as US companies morals when it comes to sexual content are just very Disneyesque in that country. Even for 18+ year olds.

Yep. The point at which Google and Apple don't both ban apps even aimed at sexual minorities like kink people (even just dating apps) is the point they can cry that they don't make moral judgements.

They do, and they've decided that consenting adult's sexual preferences are worse than an app that allows a dystopian regime to track the movement of women so abusive men can control them.

That's messed up.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#168

Post by watwut »

50656E6973 wrote: post #14

Its alarming how these increasingly powerful and consolidated silicon valley groups preach progressive morality but practice regressive totalitarianism.

So basically, you are saying that radical feminist activists are right?

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#169

Post by mk89 »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #102

I am surprised that no-one has brought up a neutrality argument yet. The app is legal within Saudi Arabia and in fact published by their government. Are we to take down any app which violates anyone’s morals? Or just the morals of particular countries? If an app is blasphemous by the standards of say Mormonism or Islam, should we take it down? After everyone is done, how many apps will be left? If we enforce some mor…

>Under Saudi law, every woman has a legal "guardian" who can restrict her travel to specific airports and routes, and get automated alerts when they cross borders.

What neutral argument do you really wish to have? The fact that their legal system is messed up won't make me say "oh, but by law you are not allowed...".

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#170

Post by darkpuma »

alacombe wrote: post #118
ixacto wrote: post #89

Here is the Saudi abasher web-app hosted on the interior ministry. https://www.moi.gov.sa/wps/portal/Home/Home/!ut/p/z1/04_iUlD... Feel free to hack this website. Because this kind of behavior is not acceptable, this is a literal totalitarian nightmare.

Retaliatory unprovoked attacks are not acceptable either.

> Retaliatory unprovoked

Contradiction in terms.

Post reply on HN