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Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

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Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#111
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thatoneyouthrow got flagged for his personal attacks on people. The quote "None of these men care about women or LGBT unless it's legally enforced." is clearly untrue, and simply doesn't address what is a multi-faceted issue. It's worth noting that if citizens of the US are concerned about this, then the citizens have the power - via government - to fix this by imposing trade sanctions.

For the sake of argument here, consider a different perspective. Can the voting US public really make a difference to foreign policy with the UAE\Saudi Arabia? === There's a grey area that's worthy of discussion, but we the voting public and as voters for democratically elected governments have cracked the shits with governments and international businesses for much less than what Saudi Arabia have done as a hostile,…

I think the public can make a difference. It was done with the TPP.

A more effective and simple solution is mandatory eVerify. What is the cost of illegal immigration? For example there's no study on the cost of deportations. There's about ~180k people deported annually? https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/05/crossing-attempts-at-us-sout...

The expense of schools has to do with the ever ballooning amount of administers, not teachers. Spending on admin increased and decreased for teachers. As of 2016 more than half of those involved in education are not teachers. Furthermore few countries outspend the US per pupil. In several states education is paid for via bonds and not out of the general fund. The country doesn't have a tax collection problem, it's got a spending problem. As long as people can vote to spend other peoples money, they will.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#112

I can’t believe that Lyft doesn’t cover the Bay Area with billboards that say “Saudi Arabia beats women and owns 10% of Uber.” “Saudi Arabia murders gay people and owns 10% of Uber.” “Saudi Arabia crucified two people last year and owns 10% of Uber.”

They can't because Saudi Arabia also owns part of Lyft (2.3%): https://www.reuters.com/article/lyft-kingdom-holding-ma/saud...

SA is diversifying as they know their oil empire is failing.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#113

thatoneyouthrow got flagged for commenting on the hypocrisy of the tech Elite for their support of a government in Saudi Arabia that kills journalists and oppresses females with no apologies - that funds radical Islam throughout the world - in the comments of an article discussing Apple and Google distributing government oppression apps on their stores. It is odd. The keep from being too meta, I pose this question (s…

In an ideal world, it would be nice if we (governments, individuals, businesses etc) didn't support oppressive regimes and other bad actors. But would we though? Take Amazon - we know that they are almost as bad as Walmart on a host of issues, but how many of us would give up the convenience of one click shopping? It would be inconvenient, sure, but it is much easier for an individual to stop shopping at Amazon than…

Be the change you wish to see in the world. Smartphones are now essential, so you can't completely avoid doing business with at least Google xor Apple, but you can absolutely give up one-click shopping. I've never used it. I've never had Amazon Prime. It's been multiple years since I last bought anything at all on Amazon. I've used Uber less than five times (and Lyft none), and the last time was over three years ago.

Don't act like these services are essentials. They're nothing but tiny conveniences. And while your individual boycott won't have an impact on their bottom lines, their entire existence depends on hundreds of millions of people in your exact situation, giving in to defeatism or not even caring in the first place.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#114
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big tech is already very powerful, and there are very few feasible ways to stop that. But it is a bit more feasible to demand that big tech use its power in certain ways. They are already at the point where almost anything they do will have an impact with moral implications, the way that an elephant walking through a field is going to crush some flowers or grasses. (See, for instance, Twitter aiding the Arab Spring b…

This quickly leads to unintended consequences. What happens if a large group of people (perhaps wearing red hats with a four letter acroynym) decide they want big tech to step on a flower you hold dear?

I don't think I'll be able to prevent them from making that demand simply if I don't make demands either. (I certainly don't think that they're not smart enough to realize that a demand could be made until they see me make one, for instance, nor that they're that exact shade of polite that thinks this is an illegitimate tactic until they see it used at which point it becomes legitimate.) So I don't think this is, in any way, a consequence.

Even asking big tech to step on them seems to have a better chance of accomplishing my goals.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#115

They let you download the app... but they do NOT host the service. That's run by the Ministry of Interior. EDIT: I had a paragraph below this saying the laws were really the problem and would still exist without the app.. but I forgot one key point: how easy it was to subvert the system before the app existed. I've removed that section. I fully support removing the app from the app stores and forcing SA to go back to…

Counterpoint: Apple has been censoring apps it morally disagree with here in the US.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#116
post #84
post #55

I don’t agree with the kingdom of Saudi Arabia’s stances, but I also feel like keeping a list of each state that violates human rights is not in Tim Cook’s or Sundar Pichai’s job description. If we are just being honest with ourselves the list of countries in which you can do business approaches 0 if we call out the violators. Secondly, the last time I checked a company’s mandate is to abide by the laws of the countr…

You don't need to follow geopolitics very closely to see the piss poor optics of having any association with Saudi Arabia.

As long as people enjoy the products well enough in practice they'll agree (enough). Diamonds, Chocolate, borderline slave labor with no environmental laws providing cheap electronics to name a few.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#117
post #89

Here is the Saudi abasher web-app hosted on the interior ministry. https://www.moi.gov.sa/wps/portal/Home/Home/!ut/p/z1/04_iUlD... Feel free to hack this website. Because this kind of behavior is not acceptable, this is a literal totalitarian nightmare.

When will the raid on the Social Credit system begin?

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#118
post #89

Here is the Saudi abasher web-app hosted on the interior ministry. https://www.moi.gov.sa/wps/portal/Home/Home/!ut/p/z1/04_iUlD... Feel free to hack this website. Because this kind of behavior is not acceptable, this is a literal totalitarian nightmare.

Retaliatory unprovoked attacks are not acceptable either.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#120

I am surprised that no-one has brought up a neutrality argument yet. The app is legal within Saudi Arabia and in fact published by their government. Are we to take down any app which violates anyone’s morals? Or just the morals of particular countries? If an app is blasphemous by the standards of say Mormonism or Islam, should we take it down? After everyone is done, how many apps will be left? If we enforce some mor…

> Are we to take down any app which violates anyone’s morals? Or just the morals of particular countries? If an app is blasphemous by the standards of say Mormonism or Islam, should we take it down? After everyone is done, how many apps will be left?

Since Apple & Google created a walled garden, any damage the apps can do fall into their responsibility. If they wanted to avoid this responsibility, they should have created an open platform.

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