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Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

nytimes.com

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Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#261

Post by mulmen »

paulgb wrote: post #191
koolba wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per https://www.doordash.com/terms/#section12 you have to send them an email with your account info within 30 days of signing up: > (f) Opt Out. You may opt out of this Arbitration Agreement. If you do so, neither you nor the Company can force the other to arbitrate as a result of this Agreement. To opt out, you must notify the Company in writing no later than 30 days after first becoming subject to this Arbitration…

Free idea: browser extension that lights up when you visit a site with an arbitration clause and tells you how to opt out.

Bonus points, look for any opportunity to opt out at all. I get the feeling "sane defaults" are not the norm in terms of service.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#262

Post by ModFightsCron »

rchaud wrote: post #236
crushcrashcrush wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I address that later in my comment... Is this a function of schooling? MBA programs? Corporatism?

It is the ancient philosophy of nickel-and-diming employees in low-margin hospitality sector businesses. I don't have access to the financials, but at no point has 'on demand food delivery' seemed to be anything other than a highly risky business servicing an extremely price-sensitive market.

that's funny. a market with almost inelastic demand is high risk for a business. right.

on demand food delivery is risky and price-sensitive? what are you talking about. there is always an almost inelastic guaranteed demand for food delivery, irrelevant of economic factors. unemployed white trash get pizza delivered. there is zero price sensitivity, because compared to the food the price is low, and the laziness is high. If someone wants food delivered, making the delivery fee double, will not make them go get food or cook. it will just make them find the lowest delivery fee and order there.

you are literally saying the opposite of what is obviously true.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#263

Post by lovich »

vinay427 wrote: post #248
sjjshzvuiajhz wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s fraud. Your money went to the driver, instead of DoorDash’s money. This is exactly how restaurant tipping works in much of the US. As usual, if you want the person you are tipping to keep the money you are giving them in addition to their minimum wage, better tip in cash.

I can't even count the number of people I meet that think waiters (in the state I most recently lived in) get paid less than minimum wage if they don't tip, when that's just not in compliance with the law. You raise a good point, anyway, because this happens all the time in restaurants in addition to DoorDash.

>when that's just not in compliance with the law

The law doesn't magically make it happen without enforcement. People think that waiters get paid less than minimum wage because they've never met a restaurant where a boss actually follows the law and pays out minimum wage if the tips don't cover it

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#264

Post by QuercusMax »

coffee wrote: post #247
Game_Ender wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like fine model to me, pay more, get faster service. The key should be transparency and a minimum service level, ie. they should lay enough by default that every order will get picked up.

It's really not a fine model, though. This isn't groceries, or a package from Amazon, this is hot food ready to serve that goes cold and soggy.

Whole Foods (Amazon) grocery delivery has you tip the delivery person up-front. They still seem to screw up my order all the time. I mean, seriously, I KNOW they have the stuff on the shelves, but the delivery people flake out all the time and don't deliver half my order. What a scam.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#265

Post by rosser »

cialowicz wrote: post #256
geoelectric wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quit tipping on DD as soon as I found this out about a month ago because it'd almost always be less than $4.50, so wouldn't affect the dasher's bottom line anyway. If I start again it'll be cash, but I don't typically carry that in small bills. But I'm pissed . I've been a heavy DD customer for years and I'm an excellent tipper. Apparently I've been offsetting DD's costs for quite awhile now thinking "100% goes to…

You quit tipping, but you haven't stopped using the service?

They quit tipping through the service, and, if I'm reading correctly, instead zero the tip at checkout, and tip in cash on arrival.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#266

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

If you are wondering why these companies think they can get away this this......

Look at the number of comments here from people who are going to continue using these service, and work around the problem by tipping the driver cash.

If you believe the leadership is amoral at a company, you have to be willing to walk away entirely or they will keep doing what they are doing.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#267

Post by AndrewKemendo »

ilaksh wrote: post #219
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on the IEEE P7010 Standards working group, which is part of the larger P7000 series that is focused on addressing ethical concerns when building software.[1] As a body, we're going through painstaking effort to build a firm footing for how and why systems designers should build an ethics decision process into their workflow. However I keep struggling to see why any software developer would care to follow our stan…

I think you're missing the point. The problem is not that developers don't care about standards. And its not that developers are just trying to make as much money as possible. Most developers have financial obligations that require them to keep their jobs. The people making unethical decisions are their bosses. The developers cannot contradict their bosses in this way and keep their jobs. However, if you make the sta…

I'm not missing the point. Ethics isn't negotiable. This is not a place to be cynical.

"Just following orders" isn't an acceptable excuse.

You either quit or you're complicit. It's pretty straightforward actually.

What we're trying to get to is a place where there is some incentive for organizations to do the process you described. At a certain point we're just going to legislate it, so we can wait for that blunt hammer to happen, or we can get our collective act together.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#268

Post by chrischen »

rconti wrote: post #104

I've never used Instacart, but I've used GrubHub and DoorDash and the like a couple of times -- I can never remember which one I have an account for, or which one has the restaurant I want, so it's always a hodgepodge. But one thing is clear as day. When I use DoorDash, the tip box says "100% of tip goes to Dasher". Look, I know all of these places either charge me a service fee, or if I'm not being charged a service…

To play devil's advocate, this is actually standard practice with tipped employees like waiters and waitresses. They are often paid a lower base wage because it is expected they make some of it back on tips. Tips have always been essentially a variable part of the worker's salary controlled by the customer. It's why in America it's considered basically unacceptable to not tip even though it's "optional."

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#269

Post by general8bitso »

chrischen wrote: post #268
rconti wrote: post #104

I've never used Instacart, but I've used GrubHub and DoorDash and the like a couple of times -- I can never remember which one I have an account for, or which one has the restaurant I want, so it's always a hodgepodge. But one thing is clear as day. When I use DoorDash, the tip box says "100% of tip goes to Dasher". Look, I know all of these places either charge me a service fee, or if I'm not being charged a service…

To play devil's advocate, this is actually standard practice with tipped employees like waiters and waitresses. They are often paid a lower base wage because it is expected they make some of it back on tips. Tips have always been essentially a variable part of the worker's salary controlled by the customer. It's why in America it's considered basically unacceptable to not tip even though it's "optional."

Waiters and waitresses don’t use their own vehicle amd gas to bring me my food, though.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#270

Post by supershazwi »

sjjshzvuiajhz wrote: post #258
supershazwi wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a customer of either services since I'm not in the US but tipping upfront before you even receive the service seems a little odd. Doesn't one tip for getting an outstanding over-the-top customer service and in order to do that, one should undergo the entire workflow till receiving the goods?

In the US tipping is standard, not for over-the-top service. In general, higher pay for better quality goods and services is part of a negotiated sticker price. Tipping is the anamoly here. In the DoorDash context, if the user were given the option to tip after delivery, they’d most likely just forget about the app once they got their food and never tip. So there’d be little incentive for the drivers to work hard for…

Unless service is so great that you have to leave a tip. I guess the culture in the US really puts tipping in a different light. When it becomes normal or close to mandatory I would say, to tip, so that workers get close to minimum wage, it really defeats the purpose. I guess I wanna tip when I feel that I'm getting more value than the amount I'm paying for and also when I'm not obliged to do so.

Anyways, aside from this point, whatever these startups are doing, are real shady. Them carefully choosing their words in the binding documents makes it even worse since they know the potential repercussions of these actions.

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