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Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

nytimes.com

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Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#241

Post by lucb1e »

jameslevy wrote: post #140
AlexandrB wrote: post #116

Not to be pedantic, but why isn't "Instacart" being annotated as "Instacart (YC S12)" in this latest round of stories? Seems only fair.

You don't see this for the YC startups that have become very mainstream. Reddit is mentioned on a front page HN headline right now ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19087558 ) without mention of its batch.

This is the second time I heard of instacart and it took me a minute to remember what they do (and the first time I heard of doordash), but reddit is much more well-known. Not sure it's that they're so commonplace.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#242

Post by lucb1e »

a-wu wrote: post #60

DoorDash is extremely helpful for me because I'm disabled and can't cook so it's really convenient for me to be able to order food for delivery when I don't have a caregiver around to cook food for me. I'm extremely disappointed by DoorDash's policies but because of my circumstances I can't just boycott. I live in a college town too, so most DoorDash drivers are students who are just barely getting by, so I'll be tip…

Can't you ask one or a few of the regular delivery people to do it directly for you instead of through the company if you think the company is treating them badly?

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#243

Post by coffee »

> ...couriers have braved the elements, gotten by on meager wages and dealt with annoying customers, growling dogs and fifth-floor walk-ups, all for the chance of a big tip from a happy customer.

This is not how I experience it working, in my area, with sites like GrubHub and the others.

They ask for a tip UPFRONT, before delivery.

I usually like to tip cash (for obvious reasons). There is an option for this, and the problem starts when I select this option.

My food takes an extra 1+ hour to arrive. It's cold. Soggy. My family has been waiting for around 2 hours total.

Interestingly...

This NEVER happens when I tip upfront through the app.

Complaining to their support line never fixes the issue, so I started asking the delivery drivers about this.

What did they say?

Apparently, the app flashes the delivery drivers how much tip you've entered BEFORE they decide to take on your delivery.

So my order, when I pay a cash tip, simply doesn't get picked up by any delivery driver and it's at the restaurant getting cold and soggy.

When I tip upfront, it gets delivered in a normal timeframe.

I tested giving a BIG tip upfront, guess what?

My order came faster than it ever has in the past. I asked the driver and he flat out told me he saw the big tip and rushed to grab this delivery.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#244

Post by Game_Ender »

coffee wrote: post #243

> ...couriers have braved the elements, gotten by on meager wages and dealt with annoying customers, growling dogs and fifth-floor walk-ups, all for the chance of a big tip from a happy customer. This is not how I experience it working, in my area, with sites like GrubHub and the others. They ask for a tip UPFRONT, before delivery. I usually like to tip cash (for obvious reasons). There is an option for this, and the…

This sounds like fine model to me, pay more, get faster service. The key should be transparency and a minimum service level, ie. they should lay enough by default that every order will get picked up.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#245

Post by coffee »

crushcrashcrush wrote: post #4

This is a great example in my opinion of the apathy we need to combat as technologists. Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? "This is wrong/greedy/will have blowback." No one voiced concerns? Or, more specifically, if they did, no one listened? They didn't think this would leak out, with all the hatred regarding wage stagnation, income inequality, corporate greed? A ma…

Most likely this did NOT play out as you've described.

I'd wager to bet it was a very high level, executive decision that got green lighted and quickly shuffled down to a low-level developer for implementation.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#246

Post by 8ytecoder »

dv_dt wrote: post #208
8ytecoder wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And riders get their cheap rides. Why are we not blaming the customers who can simply choose an alternative even if it's less convenient. We don't need Uber or Lyft or Instacart or Door dash. Why are these companies even in business after breaking laws repeatedly and with impunity? May be there lies the answer. If customers don't care enough to put a dent why would the business people care about it?

The customers don't have perfect information of a company's full behavior and dealings. Fully checking every company you ever interact with would be exhausting and nonproductive - so people rely on news and word of mouth, but even then the information doesn't reach every potential customer. Companies that facilitate business checking, have their own problems too. E.g. yelp, BBB, et al.

These infractions have been in the news forever though. I agree with you but this is not either or. Yes, the business decisions have to be better but when there's no blowback - nothing material at least - why would we think the behavior will change?

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#247

Post by coffee »

Game_Ender wrote: post #244
coffee wrote: post #243

> ...couriers have braved the elements, gotten by on meager wages and dealt with annoying customers, growling dogs and fifth-floor walk-ups, all for the chance of a big tip from a happy customer. This is not how I experience it working, in my area, with sites like GrubHub and the others. They ask for a tip UPFRONT, before delivery. I usually like to tip cash (for obvious reasons). There is an option for this, and the…

This sounds like fine model to me, pay more, get faster service. The key should be transparency and a minimum service level, ie. they should lay enough by default that every order will get picked up.

It's really not a fine model, though. This isn't groceries, or a package from Amazon, this is hot food ready to serve that goes cold and soggy.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#248

Post by vinay427 »

sjjshzvuiajhz wrote: post #240
rconti wrote: post #104

I've never used Instacart, but I've used GrubHub and DoorDash and the like a couple of times -- I can never remember which one I have an account for, or which one has the restaurant I want, so it's always a hodgepodge. But one thing is clear as day. When I use DoorDash, the tip box says "100% of tip goes to Dasher". Look, I know all of these places either charge me a service fee, or if I'm not being charged a service…

I don’t think it’s fraud. Your money went to the driver, instead of DoorDash’s money. This is exactly how restaurant tipping works in much of the US. As usual, if you want the person you are tipping to keep the money you are giving them in addition to their minimum wage, better tip in cash.

I can't even count the number of people I meet that think waiters (in the state I most recently lived in) get paid less than minimum wage if they don't tip, when that's just not in compliance with the law. You raise a good point, anyway, because this happens all the time in restaurants in addition to DoorDash.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#249

Post by supershazwi »

Game_Ender wrote: post #244
coffee wrote: post #243

> ...couriers have braved the elements, gotten by on meager wages and dealt with annoying customers, growling dogs and fifth-floor walk-ups, all for the chance of a big tip from a happy customer. This is not how I experience it working, in my area, with sites like GrubHub and the others. They ask for a tip UPFRONT, before delivery. I usually like to tip cash (for obvious reasons). There is an option for this, and the…

This sounds like fine model to me, pay more, get faster service. The key should be transparency and a minimum service level, ie. they should lay enough by default that every order will get picked up.

I'm not a customer of either services since I'm not in the US but tipping upfront before you even receive the service seems a little odd. Doesn't one tip for getting an outstanding over-the-top customer service and in order to do that, one should undergo the entire workflow till receiving the goods?

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#250

Post by sjjshzvuiajhz »

sl1ck731 wrote: post #237
rconti wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be just as easy to implement a process where a tip after-the-fact still reduces the "employee"'s normal pay.. Do just mean, in practice, that's not the way it's normally implemented?

You're right I didn't consider them making it up on the backend somehow. I still believe that forcing a "pre-tip" is a clear indication of something sketchy going on. I can't think of any other valid reason for forcing it.

This driver isn’t paid until after the delivery anyway, so that shouldn’t be a factor.

When deciding to tip before or after the service is rendered, these are the considerations likely to be weighed:

Pros for asking for tips before delivery:

1. Tips are more likely (eliminates scenario where user ignores the app after the delivery and never sees request to tip).

2. Tips are larger (user may perceive that the tip will influence the quality of service).

Cons:

1. Tip option increases perceived cost of order (or guilt if not tipping), so this additional step reduces number of completed orders.

With the DoorDash policy this article is referencing, where the company probably only makes a profit if you tip, it makes sense to ask for tips upfront. For the Uber/Lyft policy where tips are more for the benefit of the driver, it makes sense to tip after the ride.

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