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EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

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Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#121

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

dmix wrote: post #98
matt4077 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt there are many countries with more than two or three competing networks. There may be a few more resellers, or even several dozens. But it’s just uneconomical to build the hardware five times over. In any case, a FTA is not going to change it.

So how does that explain the high cost of our networks vs other countries? I'm not convinced a regulated oligopoly is the only positive option. If anything it's only positive for: a) the private friends of government who profited when the business was kept 100% Canadian b) the intelligence agencies who were given plenty of access. Most of the ownership capital went to a small group of millionaires and billionaires. M…

I don’t know.. Maybe Canada requires these networks to serve even the rural parts of the country? That would seem to be expensive. Or they charged extremely high license fees. Those work like a tax, making the specific service more expensive, but allowing for government services or lowering your other taxes.

In any case, it seems like you are maybe focusing too much on conspiratorial explanations like corruption and sourveillance. I know it’s easy and somewhat satisfying to immediately assume bad faith, but if you always assume the worst, that is what you will end up with. Because if honest politicians trying to balance the complex and competing interests of a modern society somewhat fairly, and then get spit in the face whenever they meet someone in the streets, soon you will have driven out the honest ones, or their will to remain honest. Because why bother, when the reaction is completely disconnected from your accruing, anyway?

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#122

Post by notahacker »

oaiey wrote: post #80
barrkel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people who identify as Irish and hold Irish passports who live in Northern Ireland and would be cut off from the Republic without the backstop. It's precisely the making of national identity a non-distinguishing factor that underlies the peace process. The backstop is publicly popular in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland voted by a substantial majority to Remain. The DUP is the only party that voted agains…

I am so confused why a nuclear power is so worried about a line in a contract. Breaching a contract always happens and as long as something good comes out of it no one cares. AND everyone wants to have a good outcome here. No one wants an explosive Northern Ireland again.

The UK has the theoretical capacity to renege on the Withdrawal Agreement after signing it and declare that Northern Ireland is leaving the Single Market permanently regardless of whether the EU and Ireland still have reasonable objections to the alternative border arrangements.

But intentionally breaching an international agreement probably isn't the best way of starting a brave new era of signing new international trade agreements, even before the likely resulting strife in NI is considered.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#123

Post by _bxg1 »

afrisch wrote: post #32
_bxg1 wrote: post #5

Finally a piece of good news in global politics

The best part is that tree trade is not contradictory with setting standards! > For the first time, the trade agreement includes countries' Paris climate deal commitments. > The text also addresses sustainable development and sets standards for labor, safety, environmental and consumer protection.

For sure. These days it seems like Canada and mainland Europe are the last bastions of civilization.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#124

Post by noir_lord »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #114
oaiey wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so confused why a nuclear power is so worried about a line in a contract. Breaching a contract always happens and as long as something good comes out of it no one cares. AND everyone wants to have a good outcome here. No one wants an explosive Northern Ireland again.

If a hard border returns to Northern Ireland, as it might, all it could take is one border incident to kick things off again. This contract matters, as does keeping free movement on the island. For everyone in Ireland, north and south, and many in Britain too.

I'm just old enough to remember the IRA blowing thing up in the late 80's and nineties on the mainland.

I don't think any sane person wants to go back to mortar attacks on Westminster.

It seems strange how we dealt with the ever present threat of the IRA differently to the threat of Islamist terrorism.

Yet in terms of casualties the IRA killed more people more regularly.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#125

Post by pbhjpbhj »

oaiey wrote: post #99
AndrewDucker wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that the UK makes the EU trade with it by threatening to nuke it if it doesn't? Because that's horrifying, and I can't see how else to read your comment.

No not at all. They negotiate like two normal entities. But I think it is funny to have a nuclear power being scared about a line in a contract it signs. It can just declare: I ignore that line and then wait what the other side will do. The worst case is that the EU is also breaking the contract - maybe completely - which is then ... the same as no-deal.

So, you're suggesting that if the EU responded with trade sanctions that we'd ... what, threaten them with nukes?

You don't think there might be a point in the future where we want to trade with any of the other 26 countries of the EU ever again?

You want to declare war on them to support our project of making UK an economic backwater ... I thought I'd heard it all ... wow.

What's your position on importing food? Given we don't produce enough to feed us and if we revert land to food use we'll have to sacrifice higher profit uses (e.g. we export seed potatoes, but import potatoes, because that's financial beneficial). Do you think other countries have excess to sell us just sitting around in warehouses?

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#126

Post by stefanfisk »

gardaani wrote: post #50
Tohsh7po wrote: post #14

Will consumers benefit from it? Can Japanese order from amazon.de without customs charges and vice versa?

Currently I can order cheap products (less than 20€) from China without customs fees or VAT. The shipping cost is around 1€. It means that it is cheaper to buy from China than from my local store. Unfortunately, that is about to change soon (customs fees for all products from China). Having something like that between EU and Japan would definitely boost the trade. Edit: I just checked and the same no customs fees rul…

which country do you reside in?

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#127

Post by mcintyre1994 »

Silhouette wrote: post #76
nicoburns wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that did occur, wouldn't that allow the UK and the EU to trade freely via Japan...?

Not necessarily, because there could (almost almost certainly would) be rules of origin involved. These trade deals reduce or eliminate trade barriers to a useful degree, but they aren't as all-encompassing as full membership of the EU.

This is also why countries like Japan and Canada are expressing they'll carry over deals with no changes, and British politicians are really disingenous to say that'd work fine. If the rule is say 60% has to be from the EU to be eligible, and it's 40% UK and 60% EU, then keeping that rule will make it ineligible in a UK bilateral deal. So things could become a lot more one sided with no changes to the actual deal.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#128

Post by Tomte »

pastor_elm wrote: post #37
Tohsh7po wrote: post #14

Will consumers benefit from it? Can Japanese order from amazon.de without customs charges and vice versa?

What would the Japanese need from the EU besides Airbus planes. Looks like a one-way street to me.

Food. The EU is an agricultural juggernaut, and Japan has very dense megacities with mountain ranges in between. Not the best situation for self-sufficiency.

Fortunately, they make highly sought-after electronic products and cars, which can be exchanged for food.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#129

Post by asnrk »

smcl wrote: post #62
jmanderley wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tough luck, the UK gave up its voice in the EU willingly. No one forced Brexit on you.

Well Brexit kind of is being forced upon the people Scotland and Northern Ireland who voted to remain (and, as Arethuza correctly noted, it's now likely that a majority of the UK population overall are against it anyway).

That the narrow result of a single vote is seen as sufficient justification to wildly swing a government's policy in a new direction with huge effects over decades is... baffling to me. Watching it happen is like seeing something announced by someone pretending to be a US President in a Saturday Night Live sketch and then, the next day, everyone treating it like a real thing that had happened and the whole state's policy shifting to reflect those statements, and no-one acting like that's extremely weird and insane.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#130

Post by isostatic »

Reason077 wrote: post #44
mpweiher wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually: no. Not even close. 1) The backstop is just that: a backstop. It applies only if and as long as the "frictionless" arrangements for the NI border, which everyone wants and everyone has very publicly said they want, doesn't happen. So as soon as that happens, no more backstop. 2) UKGov claimed that this frictionless trade technology/mechanism exists and can be made to work, but in the months (or years) could…

"UKGov claimed that this frictionless trade technology/mechanism exists and can be made to work, but in the months (or years) couldn't actually come up with a single bit of evidence that this is actually so." The Norway-Sweden border would be one example. Just like Ireland-Northern Ireland, they are not in a customs union but allow free movement of people.

It's not

Freedom of movement of people between Ireland and the UK is covered by the CTA. That won't change come March 31st.

Freedom of goods, services, and capital however would. The Norway Sweden border does not allow freedom of movement of goods. That's a major problem in Ireland, as you can't inspect goods passing between the north and the rest like you can between Norway and Sweden.

So why bother with a border at all?

The WTO say you have to secure your border to be a member. Imagine the UK charging high tarrifs on imports of Japanese cars. That's fine, Japan charges tarrifs on UK microwaves (or whatever).

So the UK simply moves its goods over the border to Ireland and sells them using the EU tarrifs. Japan gets pissed, and the WTO interceeds.

A cheese factory in Newry buys milk from a farm in Castleblayney (who's cows roam both sides of the border) and a farm Middletown. It then sells its cheese to a pie factory in Dundalk and a wholesaler in Omagh. The former make cheese and onion pies (onions from Coleraine), and sells them to shops in Belfast and Dublin, the latter simply packages them up and ships them to supermarkets in Galway and Lisburn.

That's a nightmare when there's a customs border between the north and south, even if it's a magical invisible one.

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