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EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

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Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#71

Post by nicoburns »

Silhouette wrote: post #19
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #2

I'm glad the UK is a member of the EU so we can benefit from this.

Both the Japanese and UK official positions are that in the event of Brexit severing these new ties via the EU, they want to implement a bilateral deal as quickly as possible that covers the same benefits as the EPA with possibilities for going further. Obviously various parties involved would prefer a more orderly transition, though. One somewhat ironic possible outcome if there is a hard Brexit is that the UK could…

If that did occur, wouldn't that allow the UK and the EU to trade freely via Japan...?

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#72

Post by petre »

pastor_elm wrote: post #37
Tohsh7po wrote: post #14

Will consumers benefit from it? Can Japanese order from amazon.de without customs charges and vice versa?

What would the Japanese need from the EU besides Airbus planes. Looks like a one-way street to me.

Coal, petroleum, machinery, wine, cheese, bottled water.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#73

Post by Silhouette »

barrkel wrote: post #65
Silhouette wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's the UK's obligation to preserve the Good Friday Agreement. The legal technicalities of that are debatable, but let's assume for this discussion that there exists a clear legal obligation to do so. Which specific obligation(s) under the GFA do you think would or would not be satisfied by which specific proposal(s) that have been made in relation to the NI/Ireland border?

We're not talking about law; we're talking about hearts and minds, identity, nationalism, the stuff that causes wars and keeps peace.

The same question applies either way:

Which specific obligation(s) under the GFA do you think would or would not be satisfied by which specific proposal(s) that have been made in relation to the NI/Ireland border?

A lot of rather non-specific claims seem to get made in debates around Brexit, of the form "someone must do something to avoid violating the GFA", but without any supporting argument about why. The Agreement is publicly available and not a long document, so anyone can read it. I think it would further useful and interesting debate if more people did, because it doesn't actually say what quite a lot of people seem to think it does.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#74

Post by blibble »

Tomte wrote: post #64
blibble wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a extremely naive view of the situation obviously there's no problem if you are of the belief that the EU would act fairly in the situation where a new workable friction-less trade technology/mechanism is created the ERG do not share this belief: their view is that if the withdrawal agreement is signed then the EU has no incentive to ever permit the UK to leave the temporary arrangement, as it would lose cont…

Well, if the UK side believes that the EU cannot be trusted, then there shouldn't be a deal at all. Because there are always small details cropping up later that need to be fixed "fairly". Unfortunately that fits very well within the "go whistle" stance, and that's why I don't really support any Brexit deal and think the UK should just crash out, consequences be damned.

it's not "cannot be trusted", it's about creating an environment that incentivises both parties to work towards a mutually acceptable solution

it's obviously counter-productive to your interests in a negotiation to put your competitor into a position that gives them complete power over you that you can never exit without their permission

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#75

Post by isostatic »

arethuza wrote: post #46
jmanderley wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tough luck, the UK gave up its voice in the EU willingly. No one forced Brexit on you.

Perhaps worth reminding everyone that a lot of people in the UK (probably the majority by this point) are actually pro EU.

And more people in the US voted for Clinton than Trump, yet here we are.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#76

Post by Silhouette »

nicoburns wrote: post #71
Silhouette wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the Japanese and UK official positions are that in the event of Brexit severing these new ties via the EU, they want to implement a bilateral deal as quickly as possible that covers the same benefits as the EPA with possibilities for going further. Obviously various parties involved would prefer a more orderly transition, though. One somewhat ironic possible outcome if there is a hard Brexit is that the UK could…

If that did occur, wouldn't that allow the UK and the EU to trade freely via Japan...?

Not necessarily, because there could (almost almost certainly would) be rules of origin involved. These trade deals reduce or eliminate trade barriers to a useful degree, but they aren't as all-encompassing as full membership of the EU.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#77

Post by ionised »

growlist wrote: post #55
tomp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still benefitted from freedom of movement (which is defined as the ability to live, work and study abroad, and lack of discrimination between EU citizens and locals).

'benefitted'

Yes, the UK benefitted greatly from the massive net positive contribtuions that immigration had on its economy.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#78

Post by isostatic »

Reason077 wrote: post #44
mpweiher wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually: no. Not even close. 1) The backstop is just that: a backstop. It applies only if and as long as the "frictionless" arrangements for the NI border, which everyone wants and everyone has very publicly said they want, doesn't happen. So as soon as that happens, no more backstop. 2) UKGov claimed that this frictionless trade technology/mechanism exists and can be made to work, but in the months (or years) could…

"UKGov claimed that this frictionless trade technology/mechanism exists and can be made to work, but in the months (or years) couldn't actually come up with a single bit of evidence that this is actually so." The Norway-Sweden border would be one example. Just like Ireland-Northern Ireland, they are not in a customs union but allow free movement of people.

Norway Sweden broder is not open for goods, same as Switzerland-EU border.

That type of border would be a disaster in Ireland.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#79

Post by _khau »

pastor_elm wrote: post #33
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #2

I'm glad the UK is a member of the EU so we can benefit from this.

Benefits of free-trade? You mean like a devastated blue collar class? Keep British products manufactured in Britain.

lol, Thatcher is to blame for the gutting of British manufacturing.

If you want to know why we became a service economy with a heavy focus on banking and the City of London, the neoliberals in the Tory and Labour parties are responsible,

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#80

Post by oaiey »

barrkel wrote: post #58
blibble wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let's be accurate here: the reason the brexiteers (i.e. the ERG) don't like the withdrawal agreement is that it gives the EU effective control of the UK economy without any mechanism for the UK to leave that arrangement without the EU's permission which is the sort of term a victor of war forces on a defeated party the ERG agreed earlier this week that if this part of the agreement is dropped they will vote for it, o…

There are people who identify as Irish and hold Irish passports who live in Northern Ireland and would be cut off from the Republic without the backstop. It's precisely the making of national identity a non-distinguishing factor that underlies the peace process. The backstop is publicly popular in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland voted by a substantial majority to Remain. The DUP is the only party that voted agains…

I am so confused why a nuclear power is so worried about a line in a contract. Breaching a contract always happens and as long as something good comes out of it no one cares. AND everyone wants to have a good outcome here. No one wants an explosive Northern Ireland again.
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