Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
> As an European, I just don't get the Israeli fixation with Iran, I agree, but let's not forget also the ridiculous fixation of Iran with Israel, which is even more senseless. I do not understand where the Irani animosity towards Israel comes from. Both countries are surrounded by arabs that hate them, wouldn't they all be better of as best buddies?
Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran
281–290 of 315 posts
Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran
#282Good. I don't know how much longer Americans are going to buy the boogiemen we keep getting fed. Sovereign nations under the the U.S.' thumb, not being able to control their own destiny only works so long as we're complacent. I sense we're growing tired of war for war's sake, leery of ideological battles built for future blowback down the road. We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global…
We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global conflict is manufactured. I hope we stop buying in. We, the people, are pretty powerless here. Lobbyists and elected officials have too much power and election cycles are too far apart. So even when recent American military action gets relatively low support from Americans [0], neither congress nor the president has any motivation to do anything…
Trump didn't get elected due to support from lobbyists and elected officials. The Russian interference was mostly noise.
Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
After two years of the clown show that is the Trump government, the USA's reputation in the EU has already suffered massively. The US is simply no longer seen as the reliable partner it once was. If you think that six more years of that don't have long-lasting effects on the US's role and influence in the world, then maybe you are the one who is thinking wishfully.
Germany is currently going through with NordStream 2, a plan that gives billions to Russia. Simultaneously, the US is expected to spend billions protecting Germany and the EU from Russia via NATO. If Russia is really a threat why is Germany helping to subsidize their military and government? Who is unreliable here? Why isn't Germany getting their natural gas from the US? Of course the EU doesn't like Trump. If somebo…
Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We, the people, are pretty powerless here. Most US americans have been voting for Democrats or Republicans or not at all for decades. Of course the politics remain the same: Wars and politics that favor the richest. Please, vote for the Green Party or another reasonable party in 2020.
The war in Iraq was a direct consequence of people voting for Nader over Gore.
Also thought the war was a direct consequence of more Democrats voting for Bush than the total number of votes Nader got.[0] Democrats favored Bush over Nader. The number of Democrats who voted for Bush exceeded those who voted for Nader five fold.
In the last state I lived in, Democrats were far more hostile to 3rd party candidates than Republicans were - putting in a lot more effort to ensure they wouldn't get on the ballet.
As someone who grew up in a country where people couldn't vote, I can't imagine acts more hostile to democracy than what I saw the Democrats do to limit choices on the ballot. I may vote Democrat often, but I don't see myself as ever supporting the party.
Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran
#285Honest argument about these issues is no longer possible on HN or elsewhere on the Net. People immediately move into ideological formations and the rational conversation falls away. The down-votes and up-votes have nothing to do with content or even the subject but only with the perceived team. I would ban politically charged conversation on HN, if this was up to me.
I don't know about ban, but an automated mechanism which removes up/downvoting anytime their are too many in a thread sounds like a good option to me.
That's a really bad idea. It would be better to delete the thread then.
Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not the countries of the European Union's job to care about their historic ally and second largest power remaining stable and friendly in a time of oligarchs and autocracies? Put aside remain/leave/nationality, your statement is nonsensical. No, the behavior of the EU does not align with the interests of its member states, that is the truth. As with Greece, so now with the UK. Crushed by unaccountable committee.
> It's not the countries of the European Union's job to care about their historic ally... It's not the EU 's job. The EU's priority is its members' interests. As you rightly point out, those interests are probably not well served by alienating the UK. But that by no means implies that the EU shouldn't be seeking the best possible deal for the EU that the UK will put up with. > No, the behavior of the EU does not alig…
Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess you talk about Russia as dubious backer. You really believe that the POTUS (notably Jill Stein and the Green Party) could be paid by Russia to enforce Russian policies to the detriment of US citizens ? This idea is as crazy as the idea that China invented global warming to harm the USA economy. From https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2018/0111/93244... Back in 2012, almost three years before he decl…
There is a legitimate investigation into Russia interference in the election. Many have already been charged, and probably many more. You really believe that nothing happened and there wasn't a concerted effort by Russia to significantly impact the election? Whether or not the POTUS or candidates were complicit is one thing, but it's very clear that a significant impact on this election was made.
Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I hope we stop buying in. When a politician tells us a country is evil, we need to start asking for receipts. Well, there’s the minor issue of Iran’s totalitarian regime consistently announcing their intent to destroy Israel and devestate the U.S.A, and taking actual steps to support the same. I am Israeli and completely left-wing by the way, and believe there are many steps both Israel and the U.S. could take to m…
> Well, there’s the minor issue of Iran’s totalitarian regime consistently announcing their intent to destroy Israel and devestate the U.S.A, and taking actual steps to support the same. Be wary of the narrative the media feeds you. There is a lot of spin on what is actually said in Iran and what is reported. For example: https://www.quora.com/Did-Irans-former-president-Ahmadinejad... This was later revisited by WaPo…
> So the UN resolution was actually legally compromised and the partition plan was also completely unfair, giving out 70 percent of the land to the immigrant Jews who made up only 30 percent of the population at the time! (See 1947 UN Partition Proposal)
> So people only need to use their common sense to see how wrong this radical and bloody demographic implantation in the Arab world, called Israel, has been!
therefore, I would take whatever other factual claims this writer makes with a grain of salt, since anyone who reads his article can see a clear anti-Israeli agenda.
But even assuming his factutal statements regarding what Ahmadinejad said: that the occupation will vanish from the face of time, and not actually Israel, which is not the same as the occupation - anyone who is a bit versed in Middle-Eastern media knows that “the occupation” is just the way Israel is referred to. In very much the same way that the Iranian regime calls Israel and the U.S. “the small and big devils”. The writer’s point is moot. Any threat about the vanishing of the occupation is the same as the threat of the vanishing of Israel as a state.
The second article is a bit weird, as it seems to argue the finer points of translation:
> Khomeini gave a speech in which he said in Persian “Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” This means, “This occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the arena of time.” But then anonymous wire service translators rendered Khomeini as saying that Israel “must be wiped off the face of the map,” which Cole and Nourouzi say is inaccurate.
and
> In 2000, Khamenei stated, “Iran’s position, which was first expressed by the Imam [Khomeini] and stated several times by those responsible, is that the cancerous tumor called Israel must be uprooted from the region.” He went on to say in the same speech that “Palestinian refugees should return and Muslims, Christians and Jews could choose a government for themselves, excluding immigrant Jews.”
Wow, I’m so glad the Iranian regime only says that Israel along with the Jews living in it must vanish and be uprooted, but not wiped out.
To make things clear: I am against the control of Israeli military of territories with a Palestenian civilian majority in the West Bank, and I myself call that “occupation”. I believe Israel is very much at fault, even if it is not exclusive fault.
But that doesn’t excuse ignoring or defending actual threats to the very existence of Israel, which Iran does make, and act upon.
Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Their strategy of having some proxy forces in strategic places is part of their defence strategy, this has been studied." Iran's sponsorship of Hezbollah towards attacking Israel is part of their defence strategy? Iran's passing of Hadouthi missiles to targeted at cilivian areas in Saudia Arabia is part of their defence strategy . Yes 'this has been studied' and I'm afraid you're wrong. Iran is a antagonistic entity…
> Iran's sponsorship of Hezbollah towards attacking Israel is part of their defence strategy? Yes. Particularly, it's central to their defense strategy against Sunni-dominated neighbors.
Moreover, there are no entities with the ability to even 'cause meaningful harm' (ie Israel) without significant reciprocal damage and serious political blowback.
So the notion of 'attacking neighbours as part of a defence' doesn't hold any water.
Consider that Iran has the open and public position that they want to 'wipe Israel of the map', that they are sending missiles that end up landing over the heads of Saudis and Israelis - it's clear that Iran poses an existential threat to some of their neighbours, not the other way around.
Palestinian issues aside (which will never be resolved through war anyhow) - Israel has proven they maintain very peaceful relations with any neighbours not trying to destroy it, ergo, the very easy path to peace with Israel is just to not antagonize them. Jordan, Egypt, Saudi etc. have zero to fear from Israel.
If Iran wanted peace they would just make peace, but it's clear they do not.
The Saudis are not the nicest bunch, and their funding of extremist activities should draw more ire, but they have no real military capabilities more than a few miles beyond their borders.
Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
The war in Iraq was a direct consequence of people voting for Nader over Gore.
Funny, I thought the war was a direct consequence of people voting for Bush. Also thought the war was a direct consequence of more Democrats voting for Bush than the total number of votes Nader got.[0] Democrats favored Bush over Nader. The number of Democrats who voted for Bush exceeded those who voted for Nader five fold . In the last state I lived in, Democrats were far more hostile to 3rd party candidates than Re…
As far as registered Dems voting habitually R.. yeah, that happens, you should see the south.