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U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

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Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#61

Post by Pyxl101 »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #29
panarky wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's conspiracy to commit bank fraud if you lie to a US bank to get them to clear US dollar transactions in violation of sanctions. Banks pay astronomical fines for evading sanctions. Infographic -> https://www.refinitiv.com/content/dam/gl/en/documents/infogr... And it's conspiracy to defraud the United States if you obstruct or defeat an agency of the US government. Also money laundering, wire fraud, stealing trade…

Like I said, they do not consider it a crime. Lying to the banks was means to an end--doing business with Iran. Like if you deal drugs, you will also evade taxes.

> Like if you deal drugs, you will also evade taxes.

Not necessarily. You could choose to pay taxes on that income to the IRS. The IRS provides a way to report illegal income and pay taxes on it.

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17

> Illegal activities. Income from illegal activities, such as money from dealing illegal drugs, must be included in your income on Form 1040, line 21, or on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040) if from your self-employment activity.

Does anyone pay taxes on income from illegal drugs? Probably not "street dealers", but I would suspect people who earn income from marijuana businesses that are legal in some states but illegal federally probably do pay tax on that income.

Furthermore, IRS tax returns are confidential. The IRS is generally prohibited from tipping off police about reported illegal income, though there are various loopholes: https://money.cnn.com/2013/02/28/news/economy/illegal-income...

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#62

Post by bgee »

educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

> Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies.

Can you kindly provide an example of this? I searched "打破技术封锁" on Baidu and first page gives me advancements from research.

http://www.baidu.com/s?ie=utf-8&f=8&rsv_bp=1&rsv_idx=1&ch=&t...

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#63

Post by tluyben2 »

baroffoos wrote: post #56
peteradio wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone stole their invention and made money off it?? Why the hell would anyone want to invest time into that? Its not like the Chinese are pursuing some ideology of free knowledge, no they are trying to scoop for profit.

Why do people work on open source or give up time for charity? Not everyone is focused purely on collecting more money when their needs are already covered.

> when their needs are already covered

So few steps to go here then; many (by far most) inventors do not have that little detail so they rely on their invention being monetized to give them that. People in open source or charity often just have enough money/time to do that on the side, but most people do not.

Needs basic income or working communism; both do not exist (yet or ever) so how would that work?

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#64

Post by arwhatever »

glitchc wrote: post #28
bitxbit wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve been ahead for awhile now, at least a decade in some areas. This is akin to the Warriors getting caught cheating every other game.

Not sure if they’re ahead in any area exactly. Do you have specifics?

Consumer drone technology. :-)

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#65

Post by dazilcher »

baroffoos wrote: post #57
unstatusthequo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what incentive do I have to spend money and innovate when everyone else can capitalize on it? That comment is a demotivational one for innovation in that it doesn't reward the entity that spend time and resources making it a reality.

Inventions could be publicly funded and then the findings be made available to everyone. We already pay for all the inventions we use indirectly so why not just fund them to begin with and actually have access to this information.

And where are these unlimited funds you speak of? I have a few crazy ideas of my own, that I'm willing to pursue on someone else's dime.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#66

Post by zozbot123 »

baroffoos wrote: post #57
unstatusthequo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what incentive do I have to spend money and innovate when everyone else can capitalize on it? That comment is a demotivational one for innovation in that it doesn't reward the entity that spend time and resources making it a reality.

Inventions could be publicly funded and then the findings be made available to everyone. We already pay for all the inventions we use indirectly so why not just fund them to begin with and actually have access to this information.

That's what academia is for. Perhaps we should ensure that academic research that is publicly funded doesn't end up with IP restrictions placed on it, and also expand the range of research academia engages in, to include more applied-research stuff and rediscovering/popularizing existing know-how that often is not publicly documented and might not even exist other than in tacit form. (This expanded scope for research would also help reduce waste due to academics overcrowding into a few über-popular fields of research, and largely duplicating efforts while trying to "scoop" one another.)

Of course, tacit know-how and first-to-market advantages will always exist to some extent. So, in a sense, we can't fully get rid of "IP"-like dynamics. But we can, and should, mitigate them.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#67

Post by mehwoot »

Taniwha wrote: post #37

On what planet is the idea of making a robot with a mechanical finger to press phones to test them a trade secret .... (as a phone developer) it's so blooming obvious I've spent hours of meeting discussing exactly this It's only a trade secret if you think the entire rest of the world is stupid

It's not the idea, its the specific technology.

took measurements of parts of the robot and, in one instance, stole a piece of the robot

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#68

Post by skybrian »

nosequel wrote: post #45
baroffoos wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing knowledge and advancing technology for everyone is something to be proud of. Society needs to end the practice of hoarding private knowledge.

China stole trade secrets and technology from US Steel and Alcor (aluminum) that allowed them to catch up in technology at an unreasonable pace. This is just one huge example. They don't innovate, they steal and then copy, undercutting others' costs. The US metal producing industry has taken a huge hit and they were the ones to put the R&D money into the production technology.

Okay, but who decides what a "reasonable" pace is? Isn't more competition better? It's not school and you don't need to do your own work.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#69

Post by [deleted] »

pointillistic wrote: post #5
sjroot wrote: post #3

I have to be honest — the allegations made here do not surprise me. The days of corporate espionage seem alive and well, and China’s image in the United States is taking a significant hit. It isn’t fair to the honest, hard-working Chinese nationals who want to build a life outside their homeland.

But is it fair to the Americans who lost jobs, manufacturing, future, because of the 20 years of "technology transfer" by China?

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#70

Post by tossaccount123 »

vkou wrote: post #50
educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

> Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater > He memorized the designs of textile factory machinery as an apprentice to a pioneer in the British industry before migrating to the United States at the age of…

There wasn't a WTO and there weren't international trades laws, in the 1800s. Even then he wasn't working as an arm of the US government to deliberately steal IP to surpass the British empire technologically, which is what the Chinese are currently doing
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