U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#21

Post by panarky » Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 11:02 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #20

panarky wrote: post #4

These look like serious charges: Defrauding four large banks into clearing transactions with Iran in violation of international sanctions. Conspiracy to obstruct justice by moving employees out of the United States so they could not be called as witnesses before a grand jury in Brooklyn. Conspiracy to defraud the United States by impairing, impeding, obstructing and defeating, through deceitful and dishonest means, t…

> But if this is just a bargaining chip to be exchanged for a few worthless face-saving trade deal "wins" for this administration, it will be disgrace. The indictment spans more than a decade; this definitely predates the current administration.

From my link:

"President Trump had previously publicly toyed with the idea of granting Ms. Meng freedom if it would help secure a trade deal, much to the dismay of law enforcement officials."

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#22

Post by bitxbit » Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 11:07 PM UTC

MichaelApproved wrote: post #19

bitxbit wrote: post #16

It boggles my mind why the Chinese choose to take on nefarious endeavors when they are already ahead.

It's not like they started after they got ahead. Nefarious tactics are a large part of how they got ahead.

They’ve been ahead for awhile now, at least a decade in some areas. This is akin to the Warriors getting caught cheating every other game.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#23

Post by educationdata » Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 11:07 PM UTC

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it.

I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the US universities in the field of EE, CS, material, etc.. Huawei actually has personnel monitoring their university webpages. Add working project to your webpage, Huawei could call/email you the next day (in Chinese of course) if they find something they want to buy to get ahead.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#24

Post by spiritcat » Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 11:07 PM UTC

Hongwei wrote: post #2

Speaking as a Canadian, this is already old news for us. There have been lively debates over on /r/canada, which went very one-sided (understandably) after China arrested two Canadians as leverage. [1] As someone who likes to follow geopolitics, I can't help but wonder if the timing of this extradition request was strategic. When Meng was arrested, Canada was in the middle of NAFTA/USMCA re-negotiations and our Prime…

I wouldn't give our leaders that much credit.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#25

Post by onetimemanytime » Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 11:07 PM UTC

No doubt Huawei did this. And no doubt Trump will wipe their slate clean for a trade deal. So it sucks for Canada.

US has sanctions on Iran, not China so getting around them is not considered a crime for them. Of course they will steal any technology them deem essential for their business.

Bank fraud is probably lying to banks about doing business with Iran, not cheating them of money.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#26

Post by Hongwei » Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 11:08 PM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #18

Hongwei wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the story, the major event is the case against Huawei CFO Wanzhou Meng. She was arrested in Vancouver per a US extradition request back in December. Most of this new article is providing background on the charges against her and then talking generally about potential cyber risks of Made-in-China silicon. Here's the Bloomberg article dated December 5th. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-05/hu…

As I said, this is the first release of the details of the charges. I'm already familiar with the history of the case, I've been following it closely.

Nothing in the article is substantially new, as someone who's been following this story closely. Perhaps coverage of this story for you as (presumably) an American is lighter than it has been for us up here. That's okay, and I wasn't speaking for you when I meant "us Canadians." Sorry.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#27

Post by panarky » Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 11:14 PM UTC

onetimemanytime wrote: post #25

No doubt Huawei did this. And no doubt Trump will wipe their slate clean for a trade deal. So it sucks for Canada. US has sanctions on Iran, not China so getting around them is not considered a crime for them. Of course they will steal any technology them deem essential for their business. Bank fraud is probably lying to banks about doing business with Iran, not cheating them of money.

It's conspiracy to commit bank fraud if you lie to a US bank to get them to clear US dollar transactions in violation of sanctions.

Banks pay astronomical fines for evading sanctions.

Infographic -> https://www.refinitiv.com/content/dam/gl/en/documents/infogr...

And it's conspiracy to defraud the United States if you obstruct or defeat an agency of the US government.

Also money laundering, wire fraud, stealing trade secrets, etc.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#28

Post by glitchc » Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 11:14 PM UTC

bitxbit wrote: post #22

MichaelApproved wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like they started after they got ahead. Nefarious tactics are a large part of how they got ahead.

They’ve been ahead for awhile now, at least a decade in some areas. This is akin to the Warriors getting caught cheating every other game.

Not sure if they’re ahead in any area exactly. Do you have specifics?

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#29

Post by onetimemanytime » Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 11:23 PM UTC

panarky wrote: post #27

onetimemanytime wrote: post #25

No doubt Huawei did this. And no doubt Trump will wipe their slate clean for a trade deal. So it sucks for Canada. US has sanctions on Iran, not China so getting around them is not considered a crime for them. Of course they will steal any technology them deem essential for their business. Bank fraud is probably lying to banks about doing business with Iran, not cheating them of money.

It's conspiracy to commit bank fraud if you lie to a US bank to get them to clear US dollar transactions in violation of sanctions. Banks pay astronomical fines for evading sanctions. Infographic -> https://www.refinitiv.com/content/dam/gl/en/documents/infogr... And it's conspiracy to defraud the United States if you obstruct or defeat an agency of the US government. Also money laundering, wire fraud, stealing trade…

Like I said, they do not consider it a crime. Lying to the banks was means to an end--doing business with Iran. Like if you deal drugs, you will also evade taxes.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#30

Post by marcell » Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 11:33 PM UTC

Hongwei wrote: post #26

greglindahl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, this is the first release of the details of the charges. I'm already familiar with the history of the case, I've been following it closely.

Nothing in the article is substantially new, as someone who's been following this story closely. Perhaps coverage of this story for you as (presumably) an American is lighter than it has been for us up here. That's okay, and I wasn't speaking for you when I meant "us Canadians." Sorry.

My understanding (perhaps wrong) is that this was the first instance of the US issuing a formal charge. Previously, the executive was arrested and prevented from leaving Canada. The new development is that the US has specified what they are accusing this executive of, whereas previously that was not public.

The significance is that before they formally charge her, there is room for face saving maneuvers. For example the US could have agreed to press lesser charges as a result of a backroom deal with China. After this new development, that is not an option for the US.