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The AI Threat to Open Societies

georgesoros.com

121–130 of 157 posts

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#121
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting perspective, however I do not believe that the Internet is democratising. I regard democracy (and capitalism) as being an industrial-era approximation of solutions to the institution-alignment-problem (analogous to the AI alignment problem, but for governments and corporations). Both of these have their own failure modes; In the case of democracy, the failure mode is that people do not know objective t…

None of these effects is new. One could print anything on pamphlets, or shout it in the town square before literacy was widespread. When searching for that boots quote to put here, I found this reference with excellent 18th century quotes about the issue: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/07/13/truth/ There's the possibility that the internet has made it worse, but that's a theory I've yet to see evidence for. You c…

Indeed, there is nothing new about this issue at all. It was even one of the arguments used in the Constitutional Convention as to why the new American government needed to be much less democratic than it ended up being.

> Mr. GERRY. The evils we experience flow from the excess of democracy. The people do not want virtue, but are the dupes of pretended patriots. In Massts. it had been fully confirmed by experience that they are daily misled into the most baneful measures and opinions by the false reports circulated by designing men, and which no one on the spot can refute. One principal evil arises from the want of due provision for those employed in the administration of Governmt. It would seem to be a maxim of democracy to starve the public servants. He mentioned the popular clamour in Massts. for the reduction of salaries and the attack made on that of the Govr. though secured by the spirit of the Constitution itself. He had he said been too republican heretofore: he was still however republican, but had been taught by experience the danger of the levilling spirit.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/debates_531.asp

Outright propaganda, foreign 'interference', and yellow journalism were extremely common in the era that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were created! The media of the day was substantially less centralized, even a medium-sized town had multiple newspapers, and political pamphlets of all natures were common.

Complaints that the people are voting 'wrong' because they're misinformed by 'designing men' are absolutely nothing new and date back to our earliest democracies. Really, the only interesting part is that the complainants are almost always defending entrenched, powerful interests. In American history, it has always been populist and/or socialist movements decried as the result of a woefully misinformed populace, and it was always analogous movements in e.g., Athens and Rome (the Gracchi, for example.) Propaganda supporting the entrenched rich and powerful and their policies is, somehow, never seen as an issue.

Going back again to the early years of America, the hysteria about 'propaganda' led to the passage of the Alien and Sedition Acts, which were used to suppress the Democratic-Republicans and their press outlets...which ended with the Federalists being crushed in the 1800 election. When I hear complaints about propaganda in democracies, what I hear is the complaints of the rich and powerful that the common people might be voting in their own interest, instead of those of the rich and powerful.

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont worry about robots and self driving tanks. That I can assure you, will not happen. Any one still selling that is selling a pipe dream. The acid test for self driving cars is whether they can drive down a road in India or any other country where people don't have western stands of driving discipline. The worse the better. HOWEVER, And this is the idea I would pursue and sell to authoritarian governments everywher…

Your assurances mean nothing. The robots are already here, drones are already "self driving"

Total fantasy. As is the combination of words "AI" -what people really mean is "a data scientist coded up a classifier."

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#123
post #112
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand - why are browsers centralised?

How many major browsers do you know? How hard it is to implement your own? How hard it is to just read and roughly audit the source code? How much control do you have over the features of the browser?

Well, several are open source. I know that they have vast and complex code bases and are extremely hard to understand or modify but it is possible and diverse communities are working on them.

For me the centralisation is at the search engine and the content generation; both have narrowed and narrowed and narrowed.

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#124
post #52

It is not AI. It is the chinese communist party. Otherwise might as well have a paper called “The Internet Threat ...” or “The pen and paper threat ...” The America fought Soviet Union. But ok with a communist party in china, with their all in and everywhere in the society (and copy things on top of contributions) ... it might be too interwoven and too big to ... Good luck.

Also the US antagonized the Soviet Union but ultimately it fell by itself. Remains to be seen what will happen in the Chinese case.

The Soviets dumped all their resources into war economy output. The Chinese, consumer goods for the world pay for their war machine, which is basically the strategy the US used to have.

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#125
post #78
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Orwell made much the same point in 1945: http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/ABomb/english/e_abomb

"ages in which the dominant weapon is expensive or difficult to make will tend to be ages of despotism, whereas when the dominant weapon is cheap and simple, the common people have a chance" All we need to do is democratize AI. It can be well argued that it is happening.

A 2nd amendment for “weaponized” AI?

“The right of the people, to code, maintain, and develop weaponized artificial intelligence shall not be infringed.”

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assurances mean nothing. The robots are already here, drones are already "self driving"

Total fantasy. As is the combination of words "AI" -what people really mean is "a data scientist coded up a classifier."

have you seen alphastar beat a professional starcraft 2 player? that is a system making decisions with imperfect information and a dynamic opponent.

i guess you could call it a classifier but it is a complex one that can make some great decisions

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#127
post #77
post #65

[flagged]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/george-soros-ss-nazi-germa... > Claim: During World War II, George Soros was a member of the SS (a Nazi paramilitary organization) or a Nazi collaborator who helped confiscate property from Jews. > Rating: False.

That article is debunking that he was in the SS. Noone ever claimed he was.

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#128
post #117
post #65

[flagged]

This account has been posting mostly unsubstantive or off-topic comments. In order for this site to gratify our intellectual curiosity, we all have to actually bring some thought to the discussion. Would you please? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Says the account posting an off topic comment...

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#129
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And tech will also solve the power problem of autocratic regimes. Right now, a dictator can't control every single individual in the country on their own. They need police that can search your apt at 5am because you made a blog post critical of the government. They need lawyers to convict you, prison guards, etc. In such regimes, the dictator still has to put people into places of power so that the will of the dictat…

Dont worry about robots and self driving tanks. That I can assure you, will not happen. Any one still selling that is selling a pipe dream. The acid test for self driving cars is whether they can drive down a road in India or any other country where people don't have western stands of driving discipline. The worse the better. HOWEVER, And this is the idea I would pursue and sell to authoritarian governments everywher…

Self driving tanks don't seem particularly useful, but how about autonomous drones that swoop in to take out specific targets. Perhaps these targets are identified by running face recognition on a network of cameras that span a city. What if the targets are chosen by an algorithm that monitors social media and uses unknown criteria to determine each person's probability of being an enemy of the state?

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#130
post #128
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This account has been posting mostly unsubstantive or off-topic comments. In order for this site to gratify our intellectual curiosity, we all have to actually bring some thought to the discussion. Would you please? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Says the account posting an off topic comment...

Indeed, but a necessary evil as a moderator of this site. We try to do it as infrequently as possible.
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