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The AI Threat to Open Societies

georgesoros.com

81–90 of 157 posts

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#81
post #60

You post an article about open societies and then I can't access it without subscribing - LOL Just my opinion then without reading it: - in China we already see what a government can do with technologies including AI to control the behaviour of people - the West always seems to think it's not going to be that evil around here because people are moral superior (I don't believe that - with Hitler in Germany we saw how…

> You post an article about open societies and then I can't access it without subscribing - LOL While I also dislike being forced to subscribe to read something, free access to publications and open society are completely different things. After all, you had open societies before the digital age, when the vast majority of newspapers were paid. Obviously, the two are linked, but I'm not even sure whether gratis access…

> ... free access to publications and open society are completely different things Of course they are and it wasn't my intention to mix them up but as you also noted they are connected somehow.

> 2. free access to articles → high quality journalism goes out of business as they have to compete against zero-cost alternatives → misinformed (or even deliberately disinformed) society → people less likely to fight for openness.

This can be right in the capitalistic framework many have to live in and deal with. On the other hand this encourages people to write what is sold best / for the highest price.

You can see how damaged the scientific publication system is as organizations and individual scientists are rated by how many articles (quantity not quality) they publish and where they are published (artificial reputation vs. real value).

I am convinced that everything must be open to really pave the way towards an open society.

The problem with this ATM is just the capitalistic framework. Peoples sole purpose in life is earning enough money to not perish before kind of a natural death occurs [which is also connected to amount of money you have].

The need to enslave yourself without purpose just to exist and the reality that success can be easily achieved just by making money somehow (quality doesn't matter and in most cases is punished because you don't earn enough margin) does not foster quality in any way.

Same goes for writing in my opinion. Better to read something from someone who is really dedicated and interested in the topic than some mercenary writer.

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#82
post #60

You post an article about open societies and then I can't access it without subscribing - LOL Just my opinion then without reading it: - in China we already see what a government can do with technologies including AI to control the behaviour of people - the West always seems to think it's not going to be that evil around here because people are moral superior (I don't believe that - with Hitler in Germany we saw how…

Btw you can read the article for free by registering, though it's a hassle. Might be easier to read from some of the alternative links with the same speech posted by others here: https://www.wired.com/story/mortal-danger-chinas-push-into-a... https://www.georgesoros.com/2019/01/24/remarks-delivered-at-...

Thank you very much :)

But that's exactly what I dislike: for everything you wanna do on the net you're forced to register. I just can't see it anymore and instantly close stuff that behaves that way.

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#83

This reminds me of the "Do artifacts have politics" paper by Langdon Winner [1]. He argues that technologies have inherent political traits. Nuclear power is considered to be supportive of autocratic political systems since nuclear power plants need centralized planning and networks to be effective. Solar power is considered democratic since anyone can harness it. It's an interesting paper and definitely worth a read…

Base internet is democratizing at complexity = 1.

The moment complexity on the web goes up, your need for governance structures goes up and the web becomes a force for centralized control of entities on the web: Human or otherwise.

The higher the level of complexity, the better the tools required to manage and analyze data. Therefore the better the tools available to analyze and manage humans.

I guess, if you project this, then the highest levels of the web probably are fully centralized and firewalled networks,.

At some point you have to deal with attackers, inimical and hostile networks and attacks to take over your "stack" of complexity/society. With the internet and high enough complexity, You can finally attack some subset of human behavior, privacy, brains, or information with automation.

The internet is probably the equivalent of flight based damage to fortresses.

And this is before people discuss something like singularity AI.

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#84

This is kind of funny how this article focuses on China and totally leaves our surveillance capitalism (Google, Facebook) out of the picture. If this article was unbiased than we would see example how the AI threat impacted the last election in the USA as well.

Very good point indeed!

That's the western filter bubble and since this trade war it's even more obvious.

Typical double standards. The news tell you who the bad guys are and everyone knows that the news never lie...

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#85
post #16
post #4

AI is only in a supporting role here. It's massive data collection and storage at low cost that's the problem. Machine learning just helps to digest the data. Tech has solved the problem of previous attempts at Big Brother - you just couldn't afford enough watchers to watch everybody all the time. Now, you can. It's even profitable.

And tech will also solve the power problem of autocratic regimes. Right now, a dictator can't control every single individual in the country on their own. They need police that can search your apt at 5am because you made a blog post critical of the government. They need lawyers to convict you, prison guards, etc. In such regimes, the dictator still has to put people into places of power so that the will of the dictat…

Dont worry about robots and self driving tanks. That I can assure you, will not happen. Any one still selling that is selling a pipe dream.

The acid test for self driving cars is whether they can drive down a road in India or any other country where people don't have western stands of driving discipline. The worse the better.

HOWEVER, And this is the idea I would pursue and sell to authoritarian governments everywhere you don't need Level 5 autonomous cars to get autonomous cars.

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#86

History has already answered this numerous times. AI is a tool much like a semi-automatic rifle or the printing press. The people who understand it well have an accelerated advantage over those who do not. It is both a good and bad thing depending upon who wields the tool. Like any force multiplier it will be misunderstood (magic) and improperly regulated by both open and closed societies alike. Like with any tool th…

The question people need to address, is whether AI is a tool like the evolution from the Gun to the automatic rifle.

OR whether AI is the kind of tool like flight, which made fortresses redundant.

We have many areas of thought and society, which have been protected by walls of 'difficulty' making them intractable to large scale, automated and effective manipulation.

This may no longer be the case, and AI may well represent the more fundamental change of the second kind.

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#87
post #52

It is not AI. It is the chinese communist party. Otherwise might as well have a paper called “The Internet Threat ...” or “The pen and paper threat ...” The America fought Soviet Union. But ok with a communist party in china, with their all in and everywhere in the society (and copy things on top of contributions) ... it might be too interwoven and too big to ... Good luck.

But the Chinese party is effective.

It may be abhorrent to the societal values of most of the people reading this comment, but its great to MANY people in China.

But even that, is a red herring.

Strongly controlled and moderated communication networks are currently less brittle than open societal systems.

Even on a micro scale, on forums, you can see the ideas the Chinese apply being put to use out of sheer necessity.

When you Add in state level actors, with the ability to crunch the numbers, then its entirely possible to create the impression of a consensus in human minds with the use of sock puppets/pseudo-human accounts.

The holy grail of such research is discovering intent of speakers or groups of speakers. This will be used to stop hate speech as much as it will to kill dissidents.

This is a right mess and any tool created to clean it up (other than human effort), is liable to create more problems.

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#88

This reminds me of the "Do artifacts have politics" paper by Langdon Winner [1]. He argues that technologies have inherent political traits. Nuclear power is considered to be supportive of autocratic political systems since nuclear power plants need centralized planning and networks to be effective. Solar power is considered democratic since anyone can harness it. It's an interesting paper and definitely worth a read…

Solar power is considered democratic since anyone can harness it

But that makes literally no sense. You can’t fabricate solar panels in your backyard. You need a factory handling toxic chemistry and a supply chain of rare earth elements from open cast mining! Solar is no less centralised than nukes.

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#89
post #73
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not nonsense, as you cannot carry on mass-killing events like the Holocaust or the Goulag without a modern-ish technology like the railway system. Or, to go directly to the source, let’s use Goebbels [1], as he was explaining that without modern technologies like the radio or the airplane the nazis’ ascent to power wouldn’t have been possible: > It would not have been possible for us to take power or to use it i…

So? let's make any modern-ish technology illegal?

Why not?

Re: The AI Threat to Open Societies

#90

This is kind of funny how this article focuses on China and totally leaves our surveillance capitalism (Google, Facebook) out of the picture. If this article was unbiased than we would see example how the AI threat impacted the last election in the USA as well.

It’s probably presented in such a way to b convincing to the maximum amount of people. Being addressed to an English-speaking audience that tends to already be suspicious of a Chinese grab for economic power, that serves as common ground to establish rapport with the audience.

This being Soros, any connection to the US election would already doom his message to be disgeraded, or even taken as evidence for its opposite.

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