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H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

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Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#321
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it depends on whether or not you consider it morally acceptable for a country to prioritize the prosperity of its own citizens over that of non-citizens. I.e., whom does a country's government serve?

Why is it morally acceptable for a country to prioritize the prosperity of its own citizens, but not for whites to prioritize the prosperity of fellow whites?

Are you reasoning against the entire concept of countries?

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary objection to that idea is the complete destruction of your country's culture.

To be fair, American culture is the destruction of other cultures if you take a critical eye at American history. It's quite funny to see people so protective of it.

Well, I'm not talking about American culture, I'm talking about any country taking in immigrants, and general reasons to object to it. It certainly isn't economics-only. (America has already undergone this process in many waves, e.g. when non-Quakers took over Pennsylvania, or when Californians move to Idaho.)

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#323
post #281
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese. In short, the vast majority(about 50+%) H1Bs are taken by India, Chinese is about 10%. Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all…

> Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. Most Indians I know, hate this H1B abuse as much as Americans. (maybe even more. I have seen people spout some genuine hate towards it) It ruins the reputation of most Indians in Masters programs at well regarded R1 universities (most people at such programs, get proper full time roles to…

I have seen the Indian manager phenomenon in 3 separate companies. Literally everyone other than me was Indian previously in my management and adjacent chain. All of them were financially intertwined. When one quit they all quit. I was only there because they hadn't hired me. There was not a single person that they hired that was not Indian. This is definitely a real phenomenon.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, American culture is the destruction of other cultures if you take a critical eye at American history. It's quite funny to see people so protective of it.

Well, I'm not talking about American culture, I'm talking about any country taking in immigrants, and general reasons to object to it. It certainly isn't economics-only. (America has already undergone this process in many waves, e.g. when non-Quakers took over Pennsylvania, or when Californians move to Idaho.)

I was gonna ask - are you also in favor of putting restrictions on Californians moving to Idaho?

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#325
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree, there is a non-quota limited O visa for temporary workers for the best and brightest Just saying, the requirements of the O visa are usually very unreasonable. An application must satisfy 3 of the below requirements: 1. Receipt of nationally or internationally recognized prizes or awards for excellence in the field of endeavor 2. Membership in associations in the field for which classification is sought wh…

In practice these requirements aren’t that hard . I have an O1 visa and I know a few others and none of us are close to a Nobel prize or fields medal .

If you don't mind, which of them and how?

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#326
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal and controlled immigration is absolutely beneficial for the US overall. But targeting specific industries is unfair - the software industry has been the main target, lowering the income levels respective to other, protected professions (physicians, etc.), or business executives. Since people in the trades like plumbers or electricians do not fall under the umbrella of "importing the best & brightest", their hou…

In rural America, we have been importing doctors from other parts of the world because we don't have enough American doctors who want to serve outside the big cities and high-paid specialties.

That's probably because foreign doctors don't know what they're getting into. From speaking with American doctors, many have been offered double the salary to go to rural and non-rural positions in the south and Midwest but they would not even consider it due to the racism and hate there. Can't say I blame them. I'd do the same and I'm white. Culture matters and having a culture of hate like most of rural and quite a bit of non-rural America does is extremely unappealing especially to people smart enough to become doctors.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#327
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a superficial carrier of American culture. Sure you speak English and consume American media, but you have socialist values which are not American. This is the land of the free, not the land of government-enforced equity and insanely high marginal taxes for the rich. Let me guess, you're anti 2nd amendment? If there were more people who thought like you in America, the country would indeed collapse in on itsel…

No, I'm pro-Second Amendment. Probably more strongly than you: I believe the original purpose of the Second Amendment was to maintain a continuous threat of violent revolution against the government, not to let people hunt deer or whatever, and as a result I believe that the people have a right to own weapons sufficient to win a war against their own government—either by letting the people have a nuclear deterrent, o…

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Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#328
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'm not talking about American culture, I'm talking about any country taking in immigrants, and general reasons to object to it. It certainly isn't economics-only. (America has already undergone this process in many waves, e.g. when non-Quakers took over Pennsylvania, or when Californians move to Idaho.)

I was gonna ask - are you also in favor of putting restrictions on Californians moving to Idaho?

I haven’t actually told you my immigration policy, and it’s clear you’ve incorrectly decided you know what it is.

My immigration policy would be to let in the set and sequence of immigrants that makes this country as nice a place to live as possible. Approximated with a greedy algorithm, that means picking the individual that makes this country the most nicer place, letting them in, and then repeating the calculation until we’ve run out of people that make the country a better place for us to live. Culturally, that means cultural optimization, not preservation.

I’d happily stop 99.999% of noncitizens from moving here and working here while allowing Californians to move to Idaho. (I’d also remove the financial penalties California places on people that moved from Idaho to California.)

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#329

Granted that H-1B visas should ostensibly be filled only for positions where it is difficult to find qualified American citizens or permanent residents, but in all honesty are the Department of Labor's allegations really that surprising? In the Bay Area, qualified job candidates are so scarce that it's quite common for citizens/permanent-residents to change jobs frequently. H1-B candidates are attractive for companie…

A talented (foreign) friend of mine had the opportunity to switch to a better, higher paid role but due to the effort involved, the risk and the pause in H1B premium processing just hung on to his current role. The H1B program itself is not a problem and in-fact is a big positive contributor to the US economy; but it definitely has issues like the one you highlighted (e.g. harder for employees to switch jobs) that sh…

I can’t help but wonder if a lot of the indignities that we tolerate (open-plan offices, unpaid overtime) aren’t worse because there are so many people in our industry unable to fight against them.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, American culture is the destruction of other cultures if you take a critical eye at American history. It's quite funny to see people so protective of it.

Well, I'm not talking about American culture, I'm talking about any country taking in immigrants, and general reasons to object to it. It certainly isn't economics-only. (America has already undergone this process in many waves, e.g. when non-Quakers took over Pennsylvania, or when Californians move to Idaho.)

This is a thread and topic about America and immigration in America. To suddenly shift and say that you're somehow not talking about American culture seems rather incredibly disingenuous.

And that said, a culture does not deserve to live by virtue of existing. It's protectionism and xenophobia, founded purely because of fears that immigrants will somehow replace your culture with something you view as being lesser. This is a two-way street because I have seen people use it as an argument against letting in people that would destroy woman's rights or what now here in America...and I've heard it used in fears of immigrants fighting for minority rights or woman's rights in countries like Japan.

It's an argument born out of irrational fears and one I find not compelling at all.

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