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H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

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Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#281

Post by screye »

ausjke wrote: post #257
petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese. In short, the vast majority(about 50+%) H1Bs are taken by India, Chinese is about 10%. Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all…

> Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc.

Most Indians I know, hate this H1B abuse as much as Americans. (maybe even more. I have seen people spout some genuine hate towards it) It ruins the reputation of most Indians in Masters programs at well regarded R1 universities (most people at such programs, get proper full time roles to my knowledge)

> There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all his department becomes Indians, which really stands out among all other races. I will not be surprised someday they will be sued for not following equal job rights.

haven't seen enough teams here to refute this claim. Hope it ain't so, but knowing Indians, I wouldn't be that surprised if some Indian managers did behave in such a manner.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#282

Post by [deleted] »

an_cap wrote: post #114
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it depends on whether or not you consider it morally acceptable for a country to prioritize the prosperity of its own citizens over that of non-citizens. I.e., whom does a country's government serve?

Why is it morally acceptable for a country to prioritize the prosperity of its own citizens, but not for whites to prioritize the prosperity of fellow whites?

[deleted]

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#284

Post by adventured »

duaoebg wrote: post #251
petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

That’s not why America is the most powerful. To sum it up “cheap credit.” No other place will give you access to money so cheaply.

If cheap credit made countries powerful, Japan would be the most powerful country in world history. They've had access to among the cheapest rates of credit for two decades, a time in which their economic output has gone nowhere.

Cheap credit helps one party and harms another within a country. It doesn't make a nation powerful. Technology, invention, scientific output, universities, capital for investment, scale, production / manufacturing, attractiveness to foreign talent and investment, modestly sane regulatory and tax policies, strong protections for property rights, ease of establishing and doing business, ease of trade, etc. Those are a few of the things that help to make a nation powerful. Those are things the US has either been the leader in or one of the leaders for the last century plus.

Much of Western Europe has had cheaper borrowing than the US for many years now, including in real-estate, corporate borrowing and at the government level. It didn't spur a great boom and increase their power. At best it has helped them tread water, which is all it did for Japan.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#285

Post by petilon »

ausjke wrote: post #257
petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese. In short, the vast majority(about 50+%) H1Bs are taken by India, Chinese is about 10%. Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all…

>There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all his department becomes Indians, which really stands out among all other races.

That's nonsense. Indians aren't one race. Indians are multiracial themselves. There are dark-skinned Indians that are mistaken for African American, and there are light skinned Indians that are mistaken for Italian Americans. The states of India are like countries of Europe in that each state has its own language: Gujarathi, Tamil, Kannada, Bengali etc.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#286

Post by slimshady94 »

ausjke wrote: post #257
petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese. In short, the vast majority(about 50+%) H1Bs are taken by India, Chinese is about 10%. Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all…

> As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese

Source?

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#287

Post by jessaustin »

screye wrote: post #281
ausjke wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese. In short, the vast majority(about 50+%) H1Bs are taken by India, Chinese is about 10%. Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all…

> Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. Most Indians I know, hate this H1B abuse as much as Americans. (maybe even more. I have seen people spout some genuine hate towards it) It ruins the reputation of most Indians in Masters programs at well regarded R1 universities (most people at such programs, get proper full time roles to…

I've seen this phenomenon both in USA and in Singapore.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#288

Post by porpoisely »

petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

We are the most powerful nation on earth because of our immense resources, geographic diversity, access to almost every major ocean and lack of powerful enemies on our border. Geography is destiny. Having the most arable land, having exploited the most oil, having access to the pacific, atlantic, arctic, etc and the ability to develop in peace due to having much weaker nations on our border is why we are a superpower.

The idea that we are the greatest nation because we have the best and brightest from around the world is simply not true. If it was true, our immigration policy would be based on IQ today.

China can't be a superpower because they are hemmed in by Russia to the north, India to the south, US/Japan/Korea alliance in the east and Iran/Central Asia/Middle East to the west.

If it is true that number of "geniuses" makes a nation the most powerful in the world, the most powerful nations would have been china and india. We know that's not the case. So your theory contradicts itself.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#289

Post by namelezz »

screye wrote: post #277
namelezz wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all his department becomes Indians It can get worse. "Woman was told she’d be fired if she didn’t marry boss’s Indian relative so he could immigrate here" - [0] 0 - https://www.surreynowleader.com/news/judge-annuls-hairdresse...

Just saying, this isn't quite relevant to CS. This was a hairdresser with a business. So, the Indian person in charge was most likely not well educated. It is disingenuous to extrapolate that to H1Bs. Secondly, this happened in Canada where Sikh/Punjabi immigration was not skill based, but rather fueled by mostly uneducated people looking for a better life. This is completely in contrast to the H1B which is a skill b…

> Indian person in charge was most likely not well educated

Here are some educated managers in US tech companies - [0]

0 - https://www.teamblind.com/article/Do-all-Indian-managers-suc...

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#290

Post by jessaustin »

petilon wrote: post #285
ausjke wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese. In short, the vast majority(about 50+%) H1Bs are taken by India, Chinese is about 10%. Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all…

> There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all his department becomes Indians, which really stands out among all other races. That's nonsense. Indians aren't one race. Indians are multiracial themselves. There are dark-skinned Indians that are mistaken for African American, and there are light skinned Indians that are mistaken for Italian Americans. The states of India are like countries of Europe…

How do your observations refute the original proposition? Race is a problematic concept, but that doesn't mean it can mean anything you want it to mean. If someone had made a similar observation e.g. about American managers in Europe, would an objection to the effect that "America has multiple races!" mean anything?
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